Dr. Lynn Price Robbins and Isaac S. Loftus are joined by historian Dr. Julia Gaffield to uncover the overlooked legacy of Jean-Jacques Dessalines, a central—but often forgotten—figure of the Haitian Revolution. While many histories of Haitian independence sideline or erase him, Dr. Gaffield restores Dessalines to his rightful place as a revolutionary leader whose impact reshaped the Atlantic world.
Please support this podcast by checking out our patreon:
www.patreon.com/primarysourcemedia
CHAPTERS:
0:00 - Introductions
1:29 - Who is Jean Jacques Dessalines
6:01 - His experience as an enslaved person
8:59 - Differences in US slave societies vs French colonies
10:42 - Saint-Domingue
12:38 - Defining Creole
14:16 - The complexities of the Haitian Revolutions’s demographics
15:04 - From slave to freeman
15:54 - The 7 Years War and the Haitian Revolution
17:52 - Racism as a cultural norm vs codification
21:00 - What sets off the revolution?
23:35 - How does the French revolution play a role?
27:12 - Jean Baptiste Charbonneau & Vincent Ogé
32:45 - Dessalines and Louverture
37:39 - Betrayal and Legacy
41:09 - A double standard: Dessalines’ barbaric reputation
49:30 - The path to independence: The end of slavery in Haiti
54:44 - The significance of the book title
EPISODE LINKS:
Dr. Julia Gaffield - https://juliagaffield.com/
I Have Avenged America: Jean-Jacques Dessalines and Haiti’s Fight for Freedom - https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300255478/i-have-avenged-america/
Haitian Revolution - https://scholar.library.miami.edu/slaves/san_domingo_revolution/revolution.html
Toussaint Louverture - https://www.britannica.com/biography/Toussaint-Louverture
Jean-Jacques Dessalines - https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jean-Jacques-Dessalines
French Revolution - https://www.britannica.com/event/French-Revolution
MLK - https://www.britannica.com/biography/Martin-Luther-King-Jr
Malcolm X - https://www.britannica.com/biography/Malcolm-X
Saint-Domingue - https://www.britannica.com/place/Haiti/Early-period#ref515792
Hispaniola - https://www.britannica.com/place/Hispaniola
Jean-Baptiste Chavannes - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Appletons%27_Cyclop%C3%A6dia_of_American_Biography/Chavannes,_Jean_Baptiste
Vincent Oge - https://www.blackpast.org/global-african-history/oge-vincent-1755-1791/
Leclerc Expedition - https://islandluminous.fiu.edu/part02-slide09.html
Cover Image - https://spencerart.ku.edu/art/collections-online/object/58502
Ulrick Jean-Pierre - https://ulrickjeanpierre.com/
“I Have Avenged America” Speech - https://haitidoi.com/2013/08/02/i-have-avenged-america/
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: 2c4hpod.com
Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/2-complicated-4-history/id1664183536
Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/show/3svQpZfxhVQnYJMESpp842?si=514780ada34d4aab
Full episodes playlist:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX2x56DEw1y7EYWxfufgfSR951RrdsXet&si=TuDcpAjaeQx-vjkH
SOCIAL:
- Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/2c4hPodcast
- Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/2c4h_podcast
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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1:03:01
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1:03:01
The Zombies are Coming!
Dr. Lynn Price Robbins and Isaac S. Loftus sit down with cultural historian Dr. Kelly J. Baker to explore America’s enduring obsession with a zombie apocalypse. What does our fascination with the undead reveal about our fears, values, and survival instincts? And how do imagined apocalyptic scenarios shape—or reflect—our responses to real-world crises?
Please support this podcast by checking out our patreon:
www.patreon.com/primarysourcemedia
Description:
Dr. Lynn Price Robbins and Isaac S. Loftus sit down with cultural historian Dr. Kelly J. Baker to explore America’s enduring obsession with a zombie apocalypse. What does our fascination with the undead reveal about our fears, values, and survival instincts? And how do imagined apocalyptic scenarios shape—or reflect—our responses to real-world crises?
Please support this podcast by checking out our patreon:
www.patreon.com/primarysourcemedia
CHAPTERS:
0:00 - Introductions
1:25 - How did you get into zombies?
8:06 - Zombies in American culture
13:32 - Moralism in the horror genre
16:48 - How does a zombie apocalypse compare to historical, real life apocalypses
27:47 - What is a luxury morality, where do we go once that’s gone?
33:05 - Is this an American phenomena and why is it so popular?
37:40 - Racism and misogyny in the genre - who survives?
45:31 - How have the winds changed in the last 5 years?
49:17 - Why should we take zombie preppers seriously?
52:48 - What is Kelly’s favorite zombie flick?
54:10 - What can we learn from zombies?
56:05 - Where to learn more about zombies and Kelly
EPISODE LINKS:
Dr. Kelly J. Baker - https://www.kellyjbaker.com/
The Zombies Are Coming: The Realities of the Zombie Apocalypse in American Culture - https://www.kellyjbaker.com/writing/the-zombies-are-coming/
Anabaptists - https://amnetwork.uk/resource/anabaptist-common-practices/
Zombie Doomsday Preppers - https://fithops.com/blogs/learning-center/plan-to-survive-zombie-outbreak#:~:text=Essential%20Zombie%20Survival%20Gear,Kit%20for%20Durability%20and%20Efficiency
Preparedness 101: Zombie Pandemic - https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/6023
Kingdom - https://www.netflix.com/title/81095387
Warm Bodies - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1588173/
Halloween Horror Nights - https://www.halloweenhorrornights.com/
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: 2c4hpod.com
Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/2-complicated-4-history/id1664183536
Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/show/3svQpZfxhVQnYJMESpp842?si=514780ada34d4aab
Full episodes playlist:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX2x56DEw1y7EYWxfufgfSR951RrdsXet&si=TuDcpAjaeQx-vjkH
SOCIAL:
- Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/2c4hPodcast
- Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/2c4h_podcast
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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59:26
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59:26
Art as Political Expression in the American Revolution
Dr. Lynn Price Robbins and Isaac S. Loftus are joined by historian Dr. Zara Anishanslin to uncover the overlooked world of non-elite painters—women, nonwhite men, and others who used their brushes to make bold political statements. While elite artists shaped the iconic images of the Revolution that we know today, these lesser-known figures painted a different picture—one that’s only now coming into view.
Please support this podcast by checking out our patreon:
www.patreon.com/primarysourcemedia
CHAPTERS:
0:00 - Introductions
2:05 - Unveiling Forgotten Artists of the Revolution
3:36 - Political Art: The Role of Art in the Revolution
9:50 - Espionage and Art: The Quirky Contributions of Artists
16:18 - Understanding Art: Reading Between the Lines in History
19:16 - Understanding the Iconography in Art today
22:08 - Piecing Together the History of Lost Paintings
26:13 - The Evolution of Radical Artists Post-Revolution
30:37 - Transatlantic Perspectives on the American Revolution
33:40 - The Declaration of Independence: Glorification vs Reality
38:56 - Art and Myth-Making in Revolutionary America
43:44 - Exploring the Lives of Three Key Artists
52:19 - Dr. Anishanslin’s favorite painting, her new book and where to find her
EPISODE LINKS:
Dr. Zara Anishanslin - https://drzara.org/
The Painter's Fire: A Forgotten History of the Artists Who Championed the American Revolution - https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674290235
Pre-order your copy- https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-painters-fire-zara-anishanslin/1146558188?ean=9780674290235
Thing4Things: The History Podcast Where Things Happen and Stuff Matters- https://www.thing4thingspodcast.com/
BlueSky - @drzara
Instagram - @thing4things and @thing4thingspodcast
Charles Willson Peale - https://www.britannica.com/biography/Charles-Willson-Peale
John Trumbull - https://www.britannica.com/biography/John-Trumbull-American-painter
Ai WeiWei - https://www.aiweiwei.com/
Banksy - https://www.banksy.co.uk/
Patience Wright - https://www.britannica.com/biography/Patience-Wright
Robert Edge Pine - https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-Edge-Pine
Joseph Wright - https://www.pafa.org/museum/collection/item/wright-family
Lord Dunmore - https://encyclopediavirginia.org/entries/dunmore-john-murray-fourth-earl-of-ca-1730-1809/
Patience Wright’s sculpture of William Pitt - https://www.westminster-abbey.org/abbey-commemorations/commemorations/william-pitt-and-family
Obama’s presidential portrait - https://npg.si.edu/learn/classroom-resource/barack-obama
King Charles’ official portrait - https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-68981200
Michelle Obama’s portrait - https://npg.si.edu/learn/classroom-resource/michelle-obama
George Washington’s Lansdowne portrait - https://npg.si.edu/object/npg_NPG.2001.13
Prince Demah - https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/essays/painting-independence-boston-prince-demah
Apotheosis of Washington - https://www.aoc.gov/explore-capitol-campus/art/apotheosis-washington
John Trumbull’s Declaration painting - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Declaration_of_Independence_(1819),_by_John_Trumbull.jpg
Robert Edge Pine’s Declaration painting - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Congress_voting_independence.jpg
John Trumbull painting with William Lee - https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/12822
Henry Laurens - https://www.britannica.com/event/American-Revolution
John Wollaston - https://www.nga.gov/artists/1981-john-wollaston
Prince Demah’s portrait of Christian Barnes - https://outofthearchives.org/2015/01/10/prince-demah-portrait-painter/
Robert Edge Pine’s portrait of Patience Wright - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Robert_Edge_Pine_-_Patience_Lovell_Wright_-_NPG.86.168_-_National_Portrait_Gallery.jpg
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: 2c4hpod.com
Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/2-complicated-4-history/id1664183536
Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/show/3svQpZfxhVQnYJMESpp842?si=514780ada34d4aab
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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1:01:54
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1:01:54
The Surprising History of Eels
Dr. Lynn Price Robbins and Isaac S. Loftus are joined by John Wyatt Greenlee to dive into the surprising history of one slippery creature—the eel. Once a delicacy, currency, contraband, and even a spiritual symbol, this elusive fish finally gets its moment in the spotlight. You’ll never look at eels the same way again.
Please support this podcast by checking out our patreon:
www.patreon.com/primarysourcemedia
CHAPTERS:
0:00 - Introductions
1:49 - What is a cartographic historian?
4:15 - How did maps lead you to eels?
12:30 - Eels are everywhere!
13:49 - What is an eel?
21:35 - The mystery of eel reproduction
27:46 - Factors of eels becoming critically endangered
30:41 - The effect of eels being yucky
35:02 - Eels as a currency
47:16 - Fast food jellied eels
48:59 - Eels in identity: eels in family crests and cultural heritage
51:43 - From dissertation to publication
54:30 - An eel story
58:02 - Where do we go to see the eels?!?!
1:09:15 - Where you can find John
EPISODE LINKS:
John Wyatt Greenlee - https://www.jwgreenlee.net/
Surprised Eel Mapping - https://surprisedeelmaps.com/
Bluesky - https://bsky.app/profile/greenleejw.bsky.social
Eels - https://www.britannica.com/animal/eel
Sargasso Sea - https://www.britannica.com/place/Sargasso-Sea
Jellied Eels - https://youtu.be/sl0uZTzBTP8?si=yteJ2PFM-vLith9y
Aristotle and eels - https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/27172/20200904/why-aristotle-freud-many-others-fascinated-european-eels.htm
Hildegard of Bingen - https://www.historytoday.com/archive/natural-histories/sexual-eeling
Henry Mayhew - https://theausteritykitchen.com/2009/10/09/from-costermonger-eel-pie-html/
Anglo-Dutch Wars - https://www.britannica.com/event/Anglo-Dutch-Wars
Rachel Carson, Under the Sea Wind - https://archive.org/details/underseawind00rach;https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/under-the-sea-wind-rachel-carson/1100214057
Ely, England - https://www.visitely.org.uk/
Ely’s Eel Day - https://www.visitcambridge.org/event/elys-eel-day/
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: 2c4hpod.com
Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/2-complicated-4-history/id1664183536
Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/show/3svQpZfxhVQnYJMESpp842?si=514780ada34d4aab
Full episodes playlist:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX2x56DEw1y7EYWxfufgfSR951RrdsXet&si=TuDcpAjaeQx-vjkH
SOCIAL:
- Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/2c4hPodcast
- Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/2c4h_podcast
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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1:03:31
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1:03:31
Surviving History - Louee Dessent
Dr. Lynn Price Robbins and Isaac S. Loftus are joined by Louee Dessent to discuss his hit YouTube series Survive History. Taking the goal of making history relevant to another level, Dessent puts himself into the harrowing, life-threatening scenarios of history and asks: Could you survive?
Please support this podcast by checking out our patreon:
www.patreon.com/primarysourcemedia
CHAPTERS:
0:00 - Introductions
3:49 - Aspirations of Writing About History
4:49 - What is Survive History
6:04 - What Have You Learned?
9:10 - Engaging with Living History
11:28 - Lessons From Historical Reenactment
14:29 - Exploring Different Historical Eras
16:18 - Why Youtube?
18:09 - How is Survive History’s Audience
24:50 - Which Era Was The Toughest and Most Resilient?
27:37 - Louee’s Favorite Episode of Survive History
30:25 - Modern Things In Ancient Eras
33:24 - Making History Relevant Today
35:38 - Navigating Dark Histories: Humor and Reflection
41:23 - Myths in History: Unpacking the Truth
45:01 - Lessons From History: Perspectives on Modern Challenges
46:55 - Historical Sites to Visit
EPISODE LINKS:
Louee Dessent - https://loueedessent.com/
Survive History - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcPAwKB9syU; https://www.youtube.com/@survivehistory
History Hit - https://www.youtube.com/@HistoryHit
English Civil Wars - https://www.britannica.com/event/English-Civil-Wars
Episode 3 of Survive History - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O580B086FU
Viking Settlers - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXpbTLkU4jA
Roman Special Forces - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWhlOAvsdN0
Pliny the Younger - https://www.britannica.com/biography/Pliny-the-Younger
Tom Plunket - https://www.dukeofwellington.org/post/the-plunkett-shot
WWI Cavalry - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evhtpgO7rbM
Bath, UK - https://visitbath.co.uk/inspire-me/about-bath/history-and-heritage
Battle of Edington - https://www.britannica.com/topic/Battle-of-Edington
Battle of Lansdown Hill - https://www.battlefieldstrust.com/resource-centre/battleview.asp?BattleFieldId=21
Battle of Hastings - https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Hastings
Richard III Discovery - https://le.ac.uk/richard-iii
Battle of Bosworth Field - https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Bosworth-Field
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: 2c4hpod.com
Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/2-complicated-4-history/id1664183536
Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/show/3svQpZfxhVQnYJMESpp842?si=514780ada34d4aab
Full episodes playlist:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX2x56DEw1y7EYWxfufgfSR951RrdsXet&si=TuDcpAjaeQx-vjkH
SOCIAL:
- Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/2c4hPodcast
- Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/2c4h_podcast
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
2 Complicated 4 History is a show that examines the “deleted scenes” of history. In each episode, co-hosts Dr. Lynn Price Robbins and Isaac S. Loftus are joined by a different guest bringing a fresh perspective to the history you thought you knew.
Brasil