The Cinematologists Podcast

• Pavements (& Videoheaven w/Alex Ross Perry)

  It is an honour to welcome filmmaker Alex Ross Perry to discuss his magisterial music film Pavements, about the band Pavement, as it arrives on MUBI on July 11th 2025. We also took the opportunity to discuss his 3hr video essay love letter to video stores, Videoheaven, which is available to screen direct from Cinema Conservancy. For a deeper insight into our thoughts on the film, check out Neil and Dario's reflections from the second 2024 London Film Festival episode, the festival where Pavements had its UK premiere. To book Videoheaven, email [email protected].  In the main conversation, Neil talks to director Alex Ross Perry about the making of Pavements, getting into the weeds on the thought processes and collaborations (editor, actors, band) required to make such a complex film, but one that captures Alex's intention to make a cinematic work that captures the musical and cultural spirit of the band and music at the heart of the story.  In Dario and Neil's bit, they take the meta-ness even further by discussing the process of talking on the podcast with Alex about the film as well as the challenges of communicating what makes something 'good' particularly when the form seems to undercut straight storytelling, and sincerity, throughout. Something that works due to the band's own history with those contexts.  ——— Visit our Patreon at www.patreon.com/cinematologists ——— You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow. We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast, so please do that if you enjoy the show. ——— Music Credits: ‘Theme from The Cinematologists’ Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

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• Ryan Gilbey (It Used to be Witches)

  With the podcast half-way through its tenth year it is a privilege to welcome back a former contributor to the show - read his piece on Clueless for The New Statesman that coincided with his previous appearance on the show - and long-time champion of The Cinematologists, Ryan Gilbey. Ryan's return is to promote and discuss his new book, the astoundingly good, It Used to be Witches: Under the Spell of Queer Cinema, published this month (June 2025) by Faber. Around the release date, I (Neil) sat down in Cinema 1 at the Barbican in London to discuss the book, the form(s) of Queer Cinema, Ryan's journey with his sexuality and how cinema is entwined and implicated, being a film obsessive, and the comfort of lists. It was a profound privilege to sit with an old friend to talk about his amazing work and this art form that we both love so much.  Around this conversation, Dario and I discuss Queer representation and the cinema as a transgressive space, ownership and authorship of texts, and the way that the cinema space affects not only the viewing of a film but in this case, the experience of talking about film. Finally, we talk about the film End of the Century (Castro, 2019, Argentina) - I mistakenly describe it as a Spanish film in the episode, apologies - the film that accompanied my visit to the Barbican to see Ryan, and also the film that magically ends his transcendent and moving book. This episode of The Cinematologists is dedicated to Barney Gilbey. ——— Visit our Patreon at www.patreon.com/cinematologists ——— You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow. We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast, so please do that if you enjoy the show. ——— Music Credits: ‘Theme from The Cinematologists’ Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

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• Tornado (w/director John Maclean)

  A decade ago John Maclean made his debut feature, the brilliant Western Slow West (2015).It followed a run of brilliant short films and music videos, as well as some of the late 90s and early 2000s most distinctive music during his time in the Beta Band. Tornado - Set in the rugged landscape of 1790s Britain, Tornado (Kōki) is a young and determined Japanese woman who finds herself caught in a perilous situation when she and her father’s (Takehiro Hira) travelling puppet Samurai show crosses paths with a gang of ruthless criminals led by Sugarman (Tim Roth) and his ambitious son Little Sugar (Jack Lowden) (Source: Screen Scotland). In this episode Neil talks to writer/director John Maclean about the genesis of the film, his approach to genre and how the film negotiates and navigates the idea of being a genre film and a period film where both elements have been under-represented in the ways they are here. Elsewhere, Neil and Dario discuss how the film's story relates to contemporary notions of [digital] feudalism and representation, genre and audience subjectivity, film language and the cinematic and how (tongue in cheek) Maclean might be the new Hitchcock! ——— Visit our Patreon at www.patreon.com/cinematologists ——— You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow. We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast, so please do that if you enjoy the show. ——— Music Credits: ‘Theme from The Cinematologists’ Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

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• Crime, Genre, Class, Race, Gender

  We're back with an episode featuring just Neil and myself discussing a cinematic topic we both are invested in: The crime/heist genre. The core of this chat is an examination of how the structures of the genre intersect with social, racial, and economic contexts in four specific films. Sparked by our shared admiration for Justin Kurzel's The Order, we trace the lineage of socially conscious crime narratives from classic noir to contemporary thrillers. We consider genre cinema's desire to convey a sense of prestige - think of the notion of elevated horror - and revisit some of the core theoretical foundations of genre as a self-contained system, as proposed by thinkers such as Steve Neale and Rick Altman. Then we tackle four films as case studies: The Order (2023) - Justin Kurzel Odds Against Tomorrow (1959) – Robert Wise Collateral (2004) – Michael Mann Widows (2018) – Steve McQueen We analyse how each of these films, in varying ways, deploy genre frameworks to narrate the struggle for power, identity, and survival, and we interrogate the evolving relationship between cinematic pleasure and political subtext. Shownotes Rick Altman - Film/Genre (London: British Film Institute, 1999) Neil Fox - Ashley Clark Curates BFI's Black Star - Director's Notes Luis M. Garcia-Mainar - Say it with generic maps: Genre, identity and flowers in Michael Mann’s Collateral - Screening the Past Steve Neale - Genre and Hollywood (London and New York: Routledge, 2000) Cayton Purdom - Mann Men - Los Angeles Review of Books ——— Visit our Patreon at www.patreon.com/cinematologists ——— You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow. We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast, so please do that if you enjoy the show. ——— Music Credits: ‘Theme from The Cinematologists’ Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

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• The Doors & Val Kilmer (w/filmmaker Mark Jenkin)

  In late March 2025 we screened Oliver Stone's 1991 epic myth of 1960s America, The Doors, at Newlyn Filmhouse at the invitation of regular Cinematologist, filmmaker Mark Jenkin. The conversation following the screening covered Jim Morrison and the band, 1960s America, Vietnam, film form and the longstanding influence of the film on Mark's work, up to and including his new film, Rose of Nevada, due for release later this year.  A few days after the screening news came of Val Kilmer's death and that prompted a rejigging of the release schedule for the podcast, so that Neil and Dario could talk in person about the film and Kilmer as an actor, on Neil's planned trip to London to do some taping.  The result of that visit, and the live screening, can be found in this episode. It's part examination and celebration of Stone's under-discussed film and part celebration and analysis of Kilmer's work as Morrison and across his varied career. Neil and Dario talk about the actor's individual style and approach and legacy, while also using Dario's recent viewing of the documentary Val (2021) as a guide for understanding Kilmer's work in The Doors. If one of the aims of the screening for the podcast was to get more people engaged with Stone's work and Kilmer's performance, the latter's death means that is sadly more likely now and we hope this discussion adds to that ongoing conversation.  Thanks to Mark for his commitment to and excitement in doing these screenings, as well as his generosity of thought and collaboration. As well, thanks to Newyln Filmhouse (Kernow) and the Garden Cinema (Covent Garden) for support at either end of the process to make this episode a reality. ——— Visit our Patreon at www.patreon.com/cinematologists ——— You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow. We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show. ——— Music Credits: ‘Theme from The Cinematologists’ Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

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