Typology

What if shame isn't the enemy we've always thought it was? What if, instead of trying to silence it, we learned to listen for what it might be telling us?

This week, I sat down with Dr. Frank Spinelli, an Enneagram Eight and the author of The Shame Compass: A Radical Framework for Trauma Healing and Self-Acceptance. Frank has spent years thinking about the ways trauma and shame shape our lives and he knows this territory personally. In our conversation, he shares how the armor we build to protect ourselves can help us survive, but can also keep the people who love us from ever seeing who we really a

Dr. Spinelli offers a different way to understand shame. Rather than treating it as proof that something is wrong with us, he invites us to see it as information: a signal that something deserves our attention. We talk about his COMPASS framework for working with shame, why learning to pause can change the course of a difficult moment, and how to separate the facts of a situation from the harsh stories we tell ourselves.

We also get into the Enneagram Eight's relationship with strength, anger, control, and vulnerability. Frank makes a point I think many of us need to hear: our strength may not be the problem. The belief that we have to carry everything alone might be.

And underneath all of it is the importance of connection. Shame thrives in isolation. Healing asks us to risk being known.

Whether shame is something you've wrestled with for years or you're only beginning to recognize its voice, I hope this conversation helps you meet yourself with a little more honesty, compassion, and courage.

In this episode:
• Why the armor we build to survive can eventually keep us from being fully known
• How shame can function as a signal rather than an indictment
• The difference between toxic shame and the kind of shame that calls us back to our values
• Frank's seven-stage COMPASS framework for developing shame literacy
• Why pausing is a skill we can—and should—practice before we're activated

What does it actually mean to become a person of deep character in a culture obsessed with personality, platform, and performance?
On this episode of Typology, Ian Morgan Cron sits down with therapist, spiritual director, professor, and author Dr. Chuck DeGroat to explore the slow and courageous work of becoming whole.
Drawing on his new book, Who You're Becoming: The Slow and Courageous Work of Cultivating Character in a Narcissistic Age, Chuck invites us to look beneath the image we present to the world and consider the person we are becoming.
Together, Ian and Chuck explore authenticity, vulnerability, spiritual formation, leadership, and the challenge of cultivating genuine character in a world that often rewards the opposite. It's a conversation about telling ourselves the truth, moving beyond performance, and embracing the deeper work of growth.
Because becoming whole isn't about building a better image. It's about becoming a more integrated, honest, and courageous human being.
In this episode, we explore:
What it means to cultivate deep character in a culture of performance

The difference between appearing authentic and doing the work of becoming whole

Why vulnerability and honest self-examination matter

The relationship between spiritual formation, leadership, and character

How we can become more intentional about the people we are becoming

Chuck DeGroat serves at Western Theological Seminary and is the founder of the Soul Care Collaborative. He is a therapist, spiritual director, professor, and author whose work explores the intersection of psychology, spiritual formation, trauma, leadership, and faith.
Listen in, reflect on who you're becoming, and join us for another conversation about the mystery of personality and the great human adventure.
Subscribe to Typology for more conversations about the Enneagram, self-awareness, and the work of becoming who we were created to be.

None of us becomes who we are on our own. We carry the stories, wounds, wisdom, and unfinished hopes of the people who came before us. Sometimes we recognize those inheritances; sometimes they show up in us before we even have words for them.
This week on Typology, Anthony and I sit down with J.S. Park, hospital chaplain and author of We Are Made of Us, to talk about the complicated, beautiful truth that understanding ourselves means getting curious about the people and stories that shape us. Joon's work has brought him alongside people at life's most vulnerable thresholds, where family histories and old patterns often come into view. He invites us to look at our own stories with a little more curiosity and a little less judgment.
Whether you're a Two, a Four, or simply someone whose family story is still unfolding, I hope this conversation offers you a little insight, compassion, and room to breathe.
In this episode:
How culture and family shape the way we understand our Enneagram type
The "June bow": why we sometimes rush people through grief
Moving beyond codependence and independence toward interdependence
A more compassionate question to ask about difficult family relationships
Listening to our aging parents and honoring the stories they carry
 
Resources:
We Are Made of Us by J.S. Park (releases 10/20/26)
J.S. Park on Instagram 
J.S. Park Website

Take the Typology Institute Enneagram Assessment

Wm. Paul Young returns to Typology for a wide-ranging conversation about forgiveness, redemption, regret, grief, and hope. Paul shares what he's learned from his friendships with men on death row, the surprising story of how he came to release expectations of his father, and why forgiveness and reconciliation aren't the same thing. We also talk about forgiving ourselves, having "sorrow days," staying present instead of future-tripping, and the redemptive ways God can meet us in the middle of our biggest mistakes. Plus, Paul shares the story behind The Return of the Shack, his long-awaited continuation of the story that began with The Shack.
 
ABOUT PAUL YOUNG
Wm. Paul Young was born in Canada and raised among a Stone Age tribe by his missionary parents in the highlands of former New Guinea. He suffered great loss as a child and young adult and now enjoys the "wastefulness of grace" with his family in the Pacific Northwest. He is the author of Lies We Believe About God and the New York Times bestsellers The Shack, Cross Roads, and Eve.
The Return of the Shack
The Shack
Website
Instagram
Facebook

This week I sat down with Drs. Les and Leslie Parrott, an Enneagram Eight and Two who have been married for more than forty years, for a fun and personal conversation about love, mental health, and self-awareness.
We talked honestly about what it actually takes to stay curious, connected, and growing in our relationships. And, we explored the ways our best qualities can sometimes get distorted, what anxiety can teach us about ourselves, and why self-awareness is often the beginning of real change.
I noticed that nearly every story we shared came back to the same thing. Les has a phrase for it: awareness is curative. He talked about the anxiety he's carried since he was young, and how simply naming it "is like putting a handle on a hot tea kettle; suddenly you can pick it up." Leslie spoke with tenderness about the seasons of her life where she has struggled and her long road back.
Their experiences are why they wrote their new book, The One Year Positive Mental Health Devotional (Tyndale, October 6, 2026). With society leaning into the mental health crisis, especially among young people, Les and Leslie felt it in their personal lives and daily work and wanted to provide a companion for all of us holding it together on the outside while something unravels underneath. It's an invitation to recognize and sit with where you really are.
At the same time, their MyHeartChart quiz grows from the same root. While the Enneagram describes who you are, your traits, your wiring, MyHeartChart tells you where you are right now in the relationship that matters most to you. It's an opportunity to take the pulse of the state of your relationship, alone…for free.
This is a conversation about marriage, parenting, mental health, the Enneagram, and the ongoing work of becoming more present to the people we love. But more than anything, it's about learning to notice ourselves so we can show up differently for each other.
 
ABOUT DRS. LES AND LESLIE PARROTT
Drs. Les and Leslie Parrott are #1 New York Times bestselling authors and psychologists. Their books include The Love Language That Matters Most; Health Me, Healthy Us; and the award-winning Saving Your Marriage Before It Starts. Their pioneering assessments have been used by millions and include the free MyHeartChart.com. Their work has been featured in the New York Times and USA Today as well as on CNN, Good Morning America, TODAY, The View, and Oprah. They live in Seattle and can be found online at LesandLeslie.com.