Secrets and Spies Podcast: Espionage | Global Issues | Current Affairs

Ahana Datta Fasel began as an ethical hacker for the British government before becoming cyber chief at the Financial Times, where nation-state actors targeting journalists became a daily reality. Her PhD on the political economy of digital espionage produced Full Stack Spies: Cyber Espionage in the Age of US-China Competition, which argues that cyber operations function as a mirror of the states behind them — their psychology, risk tolerances, and strategic ambitions made visible. She discusses with Chris how China has compensated for limited tradecraft sophistication with persistent scale and a dispersed ecosystem of front companies over three decades; what a leaked Chengdu hacker group chat reveals about the ego rivalries and financial anxieties driving operational decisions; what Operation Triangulation suggests about American reliance on private contractors; and why the defining fault line of this era isn't between peace and war, but between peace and "not war."

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Learn more about Ahana on her website: https://ahanadattafasel.com/

Order Full Stack Spies: https://www.hurstpublishers.com/profile/ahana-datta-fasel/

 
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Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD: https://filmsandpodcasts.co.uk/

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

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Ahmed Aboudouh — associate fellow at Chatham House's Middle East and North Africa Programme and head of the China Studies Unit at the Emirates Policy Center — joins Chris to assess the shifting architecture of power in the Middle East. He argues that China has no coherent regional strategy and that Washington's expectation of Chinese pressure on Tehran reflects a fundamental misreading of Beijing's interests and the limits of coercive statecraft. He traces how Egypt’s diplomacy reflects a country that has traded regional leadership for crisis management, explains why Arab states want a normalized Iran rather than a weakened one, and argues that the war will intensify multi-alignment rather than force a binary choice between Washington and Beijing. With the Abraham Accords effectively dead, the United States faces a damning paradox of its own making: deeper military entanglement, eroding strategic credibility.

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More about Ahmed on Chatham House: https://www.chathamhouse.org/about-us/our-people/ahmed-aboudouh

Connect with Ahmed on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahmed-aboudouh-346b1459/

Follow Ahmed on X: https://x.com/AAboudouh

Read Ahmed’s work for Chatham House

"Why Egypt is helping to end the Iran war": https://www.chathamhouse.org/2026/05/why-egypt-helping-end-iran-war

"China will benefit from the Iran war, regardless of any deal between Trump and Tehran": https://www.chathamhouse.org/2026/05/china-will-benefit-iran-war-regardless-any-deal-between-trump-and-tehran

"China is playing the long game over Iran": https://www.chathamhouse.org/2026/02/china-playing-long-game-over-iran

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Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD: https://filmsandpodcasts.co.uk/

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photo by Bandar Algaloud/Saudi Royal Court, Chatham House

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

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Julian Fisher spent his career as a British intelligence operative before distilling what he learned into the Think Like a Spy: Strategic Relations Workshop—and his central argument is counterintuitive: the most transferable lessons from intelligence work aren't classified techniques, they're interpersonal skills. In conversation with Chris, Fisher argues that human intelligence, at its core, is the disciplined practice of building trust, reading people accurately, and cultivating long-term strategic relationships—competencies with direct applications in leadership, negotiation, and professional life. The conversation covers his distinction between influence and manipulation (one operates in a subject's interests; the other subverts them), the role of self-awareness and genuine curiosity in effective leadership, and the trained capacity to step off the emotional battlefield and respond deliberately rather than react. Drawing on methods developed in intelligence, military, and law-enforcement contexts, Fisher's framework treats networking not as contact collection but as the construction of durable, mutually beneficial bonds—the kind that take years to build and, when they matter, make all the difference.
Join Julian's course that starts on 23rd June here:
https://theintelligencemaven.com
Connect with Julian here:
https://julesfisher.com/
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Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD: https://filmsandpodcasts.co.uk/

Music by Andrew R. Bird
Photo by Canva
Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In the late 1940s and early 1950s, CIA and MI6 launched an audacious series of clandestine operations to infiltrate and destabilize Communist Albania — and lost nearly every agent they sent in. Historian Stephen Long, Assistant Professor in International Relations at Xi'an Jiaotong-Liverpool University and author of A Rich Harvest of Bitter Fruit, reconstructs how the Albanian Sigurimi, one of Eastern Europe's most formidable counterintelligence services, turned the West's covert action program into a catastrophe — aided, from the inside, by British Russian spy Kim Philby. Long examines the fractured exile networks that became the human raw material for these missions, the diverging British and American strategic objectives, and the 1952 Apple mission's disastrous double cross. He traces how Albania's failures quietly shaped the covert interventions to come — in Iran, in Guatemala — and what the human cost demands of the institutions that ordered it.
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Order A Rich Harvest of Bitter Fruit: https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/A-Rich-Harvest-of-Bitter-Fruit-by-Stephen-Long/9781837732241

Connect with Stephen: https://scholar.xjtlu.edu.cn/en/persons/SteveLong/

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Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD: https://filmsandpodcasts.co.uk/

Music by Andrew R. Bird
Photo by AFP, Canva
Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Chris and Matt break down a packed few weeks in intelligence and geopolitics, opening with the resignation of Tulsi Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence — a departure framed officially around her husband's illness but widely read as an exit under pressure. Drawing on a Bulwark piece by former CIA officer John Sipher, they examine whether the ODNI was ever structurally sound enough to survive a politicized occupant, and what Gabbard's tenure — from her reversal on the IC's Iran nuclear assessment to her exclusion from senior meetings — reveals about what this administration actually wants from intelligence. From there, the episode turns to the Trump-Xi summit in Beijing, where the photo-op framing papered over a sharper story: divergent definitions of "constructive strategic stability," a $14 billion arms package for Taiwan left unsigned, and a delegation of American CEOs carrying hat-in-hand business pitches to Washington's principal strategic adversary. They also examine a New York Times investigation into Chinese intelligence's recruitment attempt of a House committee staffer — a case that doubled as a window into Beijing's priorities in the weeks before the summit. Finally, an investigation into Russia's covert cyber warfare training program at a university near Moscow, and a Telegraph profile of Oleg Gordievsky's quiet final years in rural Surrey — including a regular table at a restaurant Chris knows all too well.
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For more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.com
Articles discussed in today’s episode

"Tulsi Gabbard’s Office Shouldn’t Exist" by John Sipher | The Bulwark: https://www.thebulwark.com/p/tulsi-gabbard-office-shouldnt-exist-director-national-intelligence-9-11
"Tulsi Gabbard’s resistance to foreign wars amid Trump’s aggression was her undoing" by Mohamad Bazzi | The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/may/24/tulsi-gabbard-foreign-wars-trump
"Tulsi Gabbard is showing why her job shouldn’t exist" by David Ignatius | The Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2026/02/05/tulsi-gabbard-trump-dni-intelligence-agency/
"China and the U.S. Agreed to ‘Strategic Stability’ in Beijing. They Don’t Define It the Same Way." by Zongyuan Zoe Liu | Council on Foreign Relations: https://www.cfr.org/articles/china-and-the-u-s-agreed-to-strategic-stability-in-beijing-they-dont-define-it-the-same-way
"What did Trump and Xi accomplish?" | Atlantic Council: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/content-series/fastthinking/what-did-trump-and-xi-accomplish/
"He Offered a Lawmaker’s Aide Quick Cash. Was He Spying for China?" by Dustin Volz | The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/09/us/politics/china-us-spy-congressional-aide.html
"Russia’s top secret spy school teaching hacking and election meddling" by Pjotr Sauer & Shaun Walker | The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/may/07/revealed-russia-top-secret-spy-school-hacking-western-electoral-interference
"Revealed: The secret suburban life of Britain’s greatest Cold War spy" by Samuel Montgomery | The Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/26/revealed-the-secret-suburban-life-of-britains-greatest-cold/
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Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD: https://filmsandpodcasts.co.uk/
Music by Andrew R. Bird
Photos by Kenny Holston/NYT, Heather Diehl/Getty
Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.