Pastors Talk - A podcast by 9Marks

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever discuss the unusual sermon Mark preached on July 5th, 2026 — the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence; tackling the question, "Are we celebrating the 250th anniversary of a sin?" Along the way they reflect on when to depart from expositional preaching for a topical occasion, rightly ordered love of country versus idolatry.

In this special episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman sits down with Mark and Connie Dever to talk through Mark's sudden medical event. Mark and Connie recount the story, from the emergency room to Mark's slow recovery, and reflect on what the experience revealed: how a healthy church cares for a pastor and his family in crisis, and the importance of building those habits of mutual care long before you need them.

In the season finale of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman is joined by Ligon Duncan and Michael Lawrence to discuss the state of the pastoral pipeline — examining why fewer men are entering ministry, the role of demographics and seminary debt, and what healthy churches and seminaries can do about it.

In part three of their series on raising up leaders, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever work through nine practical principles Mark uses to identify and develop future pastors — from spotting qualified men and extending trust early, to delegating well, cultivating feedback loops, embracing a healthy view of authority, and modeling clarity and humility. Along the way they discuss why spending time with a few people often matters more than chasing a platform, and why a senior pastor who always wins the vote is quietly undermining his own eldership.

Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever continue their conversation on raising up leaders, exploring the connection between discipleship, evangelism, and church planting, how to measure ministry fruitfulness beyond numbers, and what it means to steward your church for the next pastor.