Ep 130. Is International Diplomacy Dead? With Stephanie Williams
The UN is demonstrably powerless in Gaza; unable to facilitate elections in Libya; and blocked by Russia from doing anything meaningful on major issues, like Ukraine, Climate Change, Tarriffs, or the Arctic. Is International Diplomacy Dead? Where is the UN in pushing back against Trump? Is there any way that countries can finally put their differences aside on major divisive issues -- like Ukraine and Gaza -- but work together on other more unifying ones – like kleptocracy and climate change – and finally Order the Disorder?
To find out, Jason is joined by Stephanie Williams – Former top United Nations mediator and a senior American diplomat. Stephanie served as the Special Adviser to the Secretary General on Libya, as well as acting UN SRSG/Special Envoy to Libya. She is the author of an excellent and highly detailed new book on international diplomacy, ‘Libya Since Qaddafi: Chaos and the Search for Peace’. As with Jason’s own book, Stephanie’s is with Hurst/OUP, by far the best publishers of cutting edge books on Libya.
The duo delve into the effectiveness of the UN and the international community in addressing global conflicts, particularly focusing on Libya. Plus they tackle: the complexities of state building, the Disordering influence of Russia on the operations of the UN, the impact of US foreign policy on Libya, and why incoherence and coordination complexities within the West makes it nearly impossible to do diplomacy anymore.
And as they Order the Disorder, Jason and Stephanie propose genuine things Steve Witkoff and others can do to formulate a more unified approach to major issues of the day.
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Get Stephanie Williams’ book, Libya Since Qaddafi: Chaos and the Search for Peace - https://www.hurstpublishers.com/book/libya-since-qaddafi/
Get Jason’s book Libya and the Global Enduring Disorder - https://www.hurstpublishers.com/book/libya-and-the-global-enduring-disorder/
Watch Why Regime Change in Iran is Impossible - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlX5_mp1JWc
Listen back to Ep4. Who is leading the disorder? https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/9ebdc18174d18cb019d148053a98e287
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Ep 129. What Does British Foreign Policy Actually Mean?
In his roll as UK Foreign Secretary, David Lammy has often talked of his concept of progressive realism, but what does that mean? And how has that impacted British foreign policy over the past 12 months?
In this episode of Disorder, Alex Hall Hall and Arthur Snell delve into the complexities of British diplomacy over the past year – offering a grade point for each area of British foreign policy. They assess the UK's relationships with the US and EU, the implications of NATO and defense strategies, their dealings with Ukraine amidst the ongoing conflict with Russia and the government's response to the humanitarian crisis in the Middle East.
To close – and Order the Disorder – the pair express the need for a clearer vision in foreign policy, greater engagement with the Global South, and a clearer moral backbone from Starmer and co.
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Read ‘Keir Starmer Has Missed His Chance to Make a Bold Break With the Past on Foreign Policy’ by Alex Hall Hall: https://bylinetimes.com/2025/06/27/labour-foreign-policy-report-card/
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Ep 128. The Decline of American Leadership
In Alex’s final episode as an official cohost, she and Jason reflect on just how disordered the world has become since the pod started in 2023. They lament the loss of sane American global leadership during that time, the challenges faced by centrist politicians, and unpack the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. They express the need for moral courage and moral clarity in politics. As they Order the Disorder – they talk about the need to use your unique voice to shine a light on what can be done to make politics work better.
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Watch Why the UK should mediate between Trump, Bibi, and the Ayatollahs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXQb1oXFBh4
Watch Why Regime Change in Iran is Impossible - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlX5_mp1JWc
Read about Georgia’s struggle for democracy and slide into authoritarianism and how it mirrors our own in the USA: https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/06/08/i-was-not-fierce-enough-georgian-activists-brutal-confession-as-democracy-collapses/
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Ep 127. How To Navigate Our Disordered World
In Alex’s penultimate episode as an official Disorder cohost, she and Jason discuss her decision to step back from co-hosting due to the overwhelming chaos in the world and the emotional toll it takes. Plus: they unpack the struggle to maintain empathy in a disordered world, the rising fear of deportation, cancellation, political violence, censorship, enemies lists, and their implications for democracy. And – as they Order the Disorder – they look at the importance of maintaining professional integrity, while dealing with emotional challenges. They also explore strategies for coping with the chaos of modern life.
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Read about Georgia’s struggle for democracy and slide into authoritarianism and how it mirrors our own in the USA: https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/06/08/i-was-not-fierce-enough-georgian-activists-brutal-confession-as-democracy-collapses/
Watch Why Regime Change in Iran is Impossible - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlX5_mp1JWc
Read ‘Donald Trump’s Los Angeles Military Deployment Is an Assault on American Democracy’ - https://bylinetimes.com/2025/06/10/donald-trump-los-angeles-military-deployment-assault-on-american-democracy/
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Ep 126. 12 Day War Restarts? Can Trump Impose Peace on Iran and Israel?
As Lenin apparently never said, ‘There Are Decades Where Nothing Happens and Weeks Where Decades Happen’. We are clearly living through the latter. Arthur and Jason attempt to untangle the latest: from the Iranian attack on the US airbase in Qatar to Trump’s declaration of forever peace to end what he is cleverly calling the 12 Day War.
Arthur and Jason rally in violent unity for Mega Ordering -- whether you advocated for Obama’s ‘Iran Deal’ or supported Trump’s tearing it to shreds, whether you love Benjamin Netanyahu or think he is an evil genius, whether you supported Trump’s Beautiful Bunker Busting against Fordow or see it as an illegal and reckless gamble, all sane centrists must now advocate for Western unity in ending the wars in Gaza and Iran. The power balance of the Middle East has been fundamentally reconfigured. It is uniquely favourable for peace. As Arthur and Jason try to Order the Disorder, they discuss if the Europeans can help get us there and why Bibi appears hellbent on spoiling his own achievements.
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Iran fires missiles at US base in Qatar, Trump calls for peace: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iran-weighs-retaliation-against-us-strikes-nuclear-sites-2025-06-23/
Watch How The Iran Israel War Could End - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fymBJbsBDfI
Arthur’s excellent substack Time to learn about Iran's separatist movements: https://substack.com/home/post/p-166505834
And our Substack, Were the Iranians forewarned? why are the markets so placid? What happens if Hormuz is closed? https://natoandtheged.substack.com/publish/posts/detail/166535764?referrer=%2Fpublish%2Fhome
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Gone are the days of coherent international coordination. Rather than working together to solve pressing crises, many of the world’s most powerful states are actively making those crises worse. The result? We’re living through a novel historical era: The Global Enduring Disorder.
The Disorder podcast, in partnership with RUSI, teases out the key principles that connect seemingly disparate challenges: from Climate Change to Tax Havens, to Unregulated Cyberspace, to the Wars in Ukraine, Syria, and Libya. Jason Pack, Associate Fellow at RUSI, and returning cohosts, discuss with world-leading experts, senior diplomats and cultural icons, the fundamental principles lurking behind today’s global issues.
At the conclusion of each episode, they will proposing inventive, win-win solutions to the globe’s most pressing challenges aka, ‘Ordering the Disorder’.
Website: https://disordershow.com/
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