Trail Runner Nation

Runners have more data, technology, nutrition products, and training advice than ever, so why does Dr. Phil Maffetonebelieve many of us are actually getting slower and less healthy? In this wide-ranging conversation, Phil challenges the resurgence of high-carbohydrate fueling, explains why building a strong aerobic system still matters, and shares how he used heart-rate training decades before it became mainstream. He breaks down the Maffetone Method, why runners should measure training by time rather than miles, and how slowing down today can ultimately help you run faster tomorrow. The conversation also explores the difference between collecting data and actually using it intelligently, along with Phil’s belief that diet and metabolic health can quietly undermine even the best training plan. And in classic Phil fashion, the discussion eventually wanders into music, creativity, awareness, and why becoming a better runner may require developing more of yourself than just your legs.

LINKS TO CHECK OUT

More about Maffetone Method and the Two-Week Test

Maffetone Music - where most of the updated research is published and, of course, his music

EPISODE SPONSORS

Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail.  OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928.

If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!

ALTRA: With the classic Altra Fit, you set the pace. Altra running shoes are designed with room for your toes so they can actually spread out -  for a natural fit. This gives you comfort, balance, and strength on and off the trail. Better balance and stability for our toes mean more comfort – on mile 5, 50, or 100.

Learn more about Altra Fit. Feel the Altra Difference and use code TRN10 for 10% off your first order at checkout at altrarunning.com/TRN. Stay Out There with Altra.

RunMotion Coach: Whether you’re training for your first trail race or chasing a new ultra PR, RunMotion Coach creates a personalized training plan that adapts to your schedule, fitness, and progress. Built by experienced coaches and powered by intelligent coaching technology, it helps you train smarter, stay consistent, and arrive at the starting line ready for your next adventure.

Timestamps

02:12 | What Runners Are Still Getting Wrong
Phil argues that despite decades of new research and technology, runners continue to repeat many of the same mistakes around training and nutrition.
03:18 | The Return of High-Carb Fueling

The conversation tackles the trend toward extremely high carbohydrate intake during endurance events and Phil’s strong disagreement with the direction it’s taking.

09:08 | The Heart-Rate Experiment That Changed Everything

Phil tells the story of putting an early heart-rate monitor on Mark Allen and asking one of the world’s best triathletes to dramatically slow down in order to eventually get faster.

14:44 | Are We Using All This Data Wrong?

With runners surrounded by watches and metrics, Phil explains why collecting numbers is very different from using them intelligently.

18:32 | How the Maffetone Method Actually Works

Phil explains aerobic heart-rate training, why runners shouldn’t necessarily train together at the same pace, and why he prefers measuring training by time instead of mileage.

27:28 | Are Today’s Runners Actually Healthier?

Despite record-breaking performances at the elite level, Phil argues that the broader running population is getting slower and points to metabolic health and excess body fat as major concerns.

46:16 | Want to Be a Better Runner? Do More Things

The conversation expands beyond training as Phil explains how music, creativity, awareness, and a more varied life can contribute to becoming a better athlete and a more complete human.

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Trail running has grown from a small community of passionate runners into a global sport, bringing bigger races, better gear, international competition, and more opportunities than ever before. Gaël Dutigny shares a firsthand account of witnessing UTMB from its very first edition in 2003 and reflects on how its evolution mirrors the growth of trail running itself. The conversation explores both sides of that growth, from crowded lotteries and commercialization to innovations in equipment, race organization, and worldwide access to incredible events. Along the way, Gaël, Don, and Scott discuss what makes iconic races so special, why local races still matter, and how runners can stay connected to the welcoming culture that first drew so many to the trails. It's a thoughtful discussion about preserving the soul of trail running while embracing the sport's exciting future.
Links: Gaël Dutigny's Substack
UltraRunning Magazine
EPISODE SPONSORS Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail. OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928. If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!
Stone Creek Coffee: Start every adventure with One More Mile, our limited edition coffee created by Stone Creek Coffee and Trail Runner Nation for runners who believe the journey is as meaningful as the finish line. Fuel your next early morning, long run, or post-run conversation, and save 20% with code ONEMOREMILE20. Every cup is an invitation to be part of a community that goes farther together.
RunMotion Coach: Whether you're training for your first trail race or chasing a new ultra PR, RunMotion Coach creates a personalized training plan that adapts to your schedule, fitness, and progress. Built by experienced coaches and powered by intelligent coaching technology, it helps you train smarter, stay consistent, and arrive at the starting line ready for your next adventure.
Timestamps 00:00 | How UTMB Began Gaël shares what it was like covering the very first UTMB in 2003 and why the race immediately felt different from anything else in endurance sports.
11:00 | From Local Race to Global Icon How UTMB grew from an adventurous mountain race into one of the biggest brands in trail running.
26:00 | Has Success Made Trail Running Harder to Access? The discussion turns to lotteries, qualifiers, and whether iconic races have become too difficult for everyday runners to experience.
37:00 | The Benefits of Growth Why commercialization has also brought lighter gear, better shoes, safer races, and more opportunities for runners around the world.
46:00 | You Don't Need UTMB to Belong A reminder that unforgettable trail running experiences can still be found at local races and on your favorite hometown trails.
1:00:00 | Protecting the Spirit of Trail Running Gaël, Don, and Scott discuss how runners can embrace the sport's growth without losing the welcoming community that makes trail running unique.

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Caffeine is one of the most researched performance enhancers in endurance sports, yet most runners know surprisingly little about how to use it effectively. In this conversation, Stone Creek Coffee founders Eric Resch and Amy Balestrieri separate the science from the myths, discussing when caffeine actually helps performance, why timing matters more than quantity, and how too much can hurt your sleep and recovery. They also explore why that morning cup of coffee is about far more than caffeine, touching on the rituals, psychology, and community that make coffee such an important part of endurance culture. Along the way, you'll learn about caffeine tolerance, race-day strategies, common misconceptions like dehydration, and even what goes into producing a truly great cup of coffee. You'll come away with a better understanding of how to make caffeine work for you and a new appreciation for the cup of coffee that starts so many great adventures.
EPISODE SPONSORS Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail. OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928. If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!
ALTRA: With the classic Altra Fit, you set the pace. Altra running shoes are designed with room for your toes so they can actually spread out - for a natural fit. This gives you comfort, balance, and strength on and off the trail. Better balance and stability for our toes means more comfort – on mile 5, 50, or 100. Learn more about Altra Fit. Feel the Altra Difference and use code TRN10 for 10% off your first order at checkout at altrarunning.com/TRN. Stay Out There with Altra.
Stone Creek Coffee: Start every adventure with One More Mile, our limited edition coffee created by Stone Creek Coffee and Trail Runner Nation for runners who believe the journey is as meaningful as the finish line. Fuel your next early morning, long run, or post-run conversation, and save 20% with code ONEMOREMILE20. Every cup is an invitation to be part of a community that goes farther together.
RunMotion Coach: Whether you're training for your first trail race or chasing a new ultra PR, RunMotion Coach creates a personalized training plan that adapts to your schedule, fitness, and progress. Built by experienced coaches and powered by intelligent coaching technology, it helps you train smarter, stay consistent, and arrive at the starting line ready for your next adventure.
Timestamps 00:00 | Why Caffeine Matters to Endurance Athletes The discussion begins with why caffeine has become such a staple of trail running and what science actually says about its performance benefits.
07:00 | Coffee Is More Than Just Caffeine Eric and Amy explain why your morning coffee ritual is as much psychological as it is physiological.
14:00 | How to Use Caffeine for Training and Racing Practical advice on timing, dosage, long runs, and race-day strategies to get the most from caffeine.
20:30 | Busting Common Coffee Myths The group tackles questions about dehydration, dark vs. light roast, caffeine levels, and energy drinks.
29:00 | From Coffee Farm to Your Mug A behind-the-scenes look at how specialty coffee is grown, sourced, roasted, and why quality matters.
38:30 | Finding the Right Coffee Routine The conversation shifts back to runners, covering caffeine tolerance, sleep, recovery, and building a routine that works for your body.
55:00 | Introducing The Long Run Blend Eric and Amy share the story behind Stone Creek Coffee's custom Trail Runner Nation blend and why it was designed specifically for endurance athletes.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Marc Hopkins, author of Hard Things, set out to write a book about running the Bigfoot 200, but what emerged was something much deeper. In this conversation, he shares how endurance running became the lens through which he uncovered old stories about self-worth, fear, identity, and the belief that one more finish line would finally make him enough. Together, we explore why runners chase hard things, the difference between simply enduring life and living with purpose, and how the trail can expose what's really driving us. Marc also opens up about surviving a 99% heart blockage, learning when grit is a strength and when it's time to stop, and why vulnerability may be the toughest skill endurance athletes ever develop. If you've ever wondered why you run, or found yourself learning more about your life than your splits during a long run, this conversation will stay with you long after the episode ends.
EPISODE SPONSORS Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail. OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928. If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!
ALTRA: With the classic Altra Fit, you set the pace. Altra running shoes are designed with room for your toes so they can actually spread out - for a natural fit. This gives you comfort, balance, and strength on and off the trail. Better balance and stability for our toes means more comfort – on mile 5, 50, or 100. Learn more about Altra Fit. Feel the Altra Difference and use code TRN10 for 10% off your first order at checkout at altrarunning.com/TRN. Stay Out There™ with Altra.
Stone Creek Coffee: Start every adventure with One More Mile, our limited edition coffee created by Stone Creek Coffee and Trail Runner Nation for runners who believe the journey is as meaningful as the finish line. Fuel your next early morning, long run, or post-run conversation, and save 20% with code ONEMOREMILE20. Every cup is an invitation to be part of a community that goes farther together.
RunMotion Coach: Whether you're training for your first trail race or chasing a new ultra PR, RunMotion Coach creates a personalized training plan that adapts to your schedule, fitness, and progress. Built by experienced coaches and powered by intelligent coaching technology, it helps you train smarter, stay consistent, and arrive at the starting line ready for your next adventure.
Timestamps 00:00 | Why We Chase Hard Things Marc explains how a book about the Bigfoot 200 became an honest look at identity, purpose, and the reasons we pursue difficult goals.
08:00 | Enduring vs. Endurance The conversation explores the difference between simply surviving life and intentionally moving toward something meaningful.
18:30 | The Finish Line Won't Make You Whole Marc shares how he believed one more race would finally prove his worth, and why that mindset eventually fell apart.
30:30 | Lessons From a 99% Heart Blockage A life-threatening diagnosis forced Marc to rethink strength, vulnerability, and what it really means to listen to your body.
43:30 | The Pebble in Your Shoe A simple refrigerator magnet from Marc's childhood became one of the biggest life lessons in the entire book.
49:00 | Why the Next Finish Line Isn't the Answer The hosts discuss identity, self-worth, and why chasing bigger races can never solve what's happening inside.
53:30 | When Can You Finally Call Yourself a Runner? Marc explains why comparison steals joy and why every runner, regardless of pace or body type, belongs on the trail.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What if getting older doesn't mean doing less, but doing it better? In this installment of the Aging as an Athlete series, legendary ultrarunner Krissy Moehl welcomes longtime climber and Patagonia ambassador Kate Rutherford for a conversation about longevity, purpose, and evolving with age. Kate shares how decades of climbing taught her that technical skill, efficiency, and joy can eventually outweigh youthful strength and endurance. The discussion explores everything from body awareness and recovery to nutrition, community, and why learning to focus on what truly matters becomes one of the greatest athletic advantages. Whether you're a runner, climber, or simply hoping to stay active for life, this episode offers a refreshing perspective on growing older without giving up adventure.
Kate is a long time professional climber, artist, advocate for wilderness, eater of leafy organic greens, president of Farm To Crag, and product line manager at Patagonia. Her passion for climbing has taken her all over the world including first ascents on Fitz Roy in Patagonia, Kenya, Iran, and Venezuela, a free ascent of El Capitan's Free Rider. She has had the opportunity to work with some amazing organizations, including Patagonia, La Sportiva, Edelrid, Black Diamond, Clif Bar, the Access Fund, and the American Alpine club. The combination of climbing, a biology degree from the Colorado College, rural homesteading in Alaska, subsistence hunting and fishing, carrots from Mom's garden, and watching organic regenerative agriculture's ability to combat climate change, has led me to co-found Farm to Crag. It is the perfect blend of climbing, stories, farms, maps, organic greens, environmental activism, and dinner parties.
Check out Farm to Crag
Episode Sponsor: Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail. OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928. If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses! ALTRA: With the classic Altra Fit, you set the pace. Altra running shoes are designed with room for your toes so they can actually spread out - for a natural fit. This gives you comfort, balance, and strength on and off the trail. Better balance and stability for our toes means more comfort – on mile 5, 50, or 100. Learn more about Altra Fit. Feel the Altra Difference and use code TRN10 for 10% off your first order at checkout at altrarunning.com/TRN Stay Out There™ with Altra.
Stone Creek Coffee: Start every adventure with The Long Run, our limited edition coffee created by Stone Creek Coffee and Trail Runner Nation for runners who believe the journey is as meaningful as the finish line. Fuel your next early morning, long run, or post-run conversation, and save 20% with code LONGRUN20. Every cup is an invitation to be part of a community that goes farther together.

TimeStamps
00:00 | Growing Older Without Growing Smaller
Krissy introduces climber Kate Rutherford and explores how aging can expand our relationship with movement instead of limiting it.
09:00 | Community, Trust, and Doing Hard Things
Kate explains the unique culture of climbing and why shared challenges create lifelong bonds.
17:00 | Trading Strength for Skill
The conversation explores how technical ability, efficiency, and body awareness become greater assets than raw physical power.
28:00 | The Power of Staying Present
From climbing walls to mountain trails, focusing on the next move instead of the finish line changes everything.
39:00 | Why Power Training Matters More With Age
Kate shares how short, intentional strength work has helped her continue pursuing big mountain objectives.
48:00 | Fueling for a Lifetime Outdoors
Nutrition, recovery, and whole foods become central themes as the discussion shifts toward long-term health and performance.
56:00 | Building a Legacy Beyond Sport
The episode closes with Farm to Crag, environmental stewardship, and the idea that the greatest adventures are those that strengthen both people and places.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.