Easy Prey

Technology keeps changing, but many of the most effective scams still come down to something very human: trust. My guest today is Tony Sales, co-founder of We Fight Fincrime and Underworld TV. Tony has a perspective most people in fraud prevention will never have. Earlier in his life, he was involved in organized financial crime and was once described in the UK press as Britain's greatest fraudster. 
After years in that world, and after serving time in prison, Tony made the decision to use what he knew to help stop the very crimes he had once been part of. Today, Tony works with financial institutions, governments, law enforcement, and major organizations to help them better understand fraud, social engineering, money laundering, and cybercrime. In this conversation, he explains why criminals are often so effective at exploiting human behavior, why security training can miss the real-world ways scams unfold, and why friction is not always a bad thing when it helps protect people from devastating losses.
We also talk about the role of leaked data, call center scams, deepfakes, banking safeguards, and why consumers and organizations both need to think differently about fraud prevention. Tony's message is direct: criminals adapt quickly, and if we want to defend against them, we need to understand how they think.
Show Notes:
[01:25] Tony Sales shares his background as a former UK fraudster and explains how he now works through We Fight Fincrime to help people understand money laundering, online safety, and human vulnerability.
[03:04] Tony describes being drawn into crime as a child, beginning with small thefts before gradually moving into sponsorship scams, credit card fraud, and cloned debit cards.
[06:10] After getting caught for identity theft and spending years as a fugitive, Tony explains how prison and seeing the impact on his family became a turning point in his life.
[08:35] How organized crime operates like a business, with different people handling IDs, fraud schemes, fake watches, mortgage fraud, and professional connections.
[11:40] Why criminal networks rely on trusted introductions, insulation, and layers of separation to protect the people at the top.
[14:30] Tony explains how criminals adapt in the moment, use confidence to avoid suspicion, and often rely on talking their way out of situations instead of escalating them.
[18:20] The difference between how criminals and security professionals think, including why criminals are not limited by the same rules, checklists, or assumptions.
[21:35] Tony discusses how childhood experiences, ADHD, and a lack of structure contributed to the way he viewed rules and boundaries.
[24:00] Social engineering is not always dramatic or technical; Tony explains how believable stories, ordinary behavior, and quick adaptation can be more effective than elaborate tactics.
[26:45] How call center scams combine scripts with salesmanship, emotional pressure, and real-time responses to keep victims engaged.
[29:33] Tony explains why leaked data remains valuable for criminals and how even a name and phone number can be enough to build a convincing attack.
[31:43] The conversation turns to personal and organizational protection, including Tony's belief that people need to "patch" the human operating system.
[34:20] Why fraud awareness training often fails when it is boring, generic, or disconnected from people's everyday consumer lives.
[36:16] An example of a bank adding friction to an international wire transfer, and Tony explains why friction can protect people from major losses.
[38:30] Tony discusses the tension between fast, frictionless transactions and stronger safeguards that may slow people down but reduce fraud risk.
[41:03] AI, deepfakes, and impersonation scams raise new challenges, but Tony emphasizes the importance of live verification and using common sense.
[43:24] What consumers should understand about bank security, shared responsibility, and why no system can remove every risk.
[46:00] Everyday data requests, such as hotels asking for passport copies, can create long-term privacy and fraud risks if that information is mishandled.
[47:48] Tony discusses online safety, young people, and why banning access to social media may create new vulnerabilities instead of solving the underlying problem.
[50:15] Why learning from former criminals, hackers, and people who understand real-world attacks can help organizations defend themselves more effectively.
[52:30] Tony explains why companies need more security talent, stronger resources, and boards that understand the scale of modern fraud and cybercrime threats.
[54:32] Tony shares where listeners can find him online and learn more about We Fight Fincrime.
Thanks for joining us on Easy Prey. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review. 
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We Fight Fincrime
Tony Sales - LinkedIn
Underworld TV
The Big Con: How I Stole £30 Million And Got Away With It

Scams and safety threats don't always announce themselves. Sometimes they start quietly, with a moment of distraction, a strange feeling you ignore, or a situation that shifts just enough to test whether you're paying attention.
My guest today is S. Gale Bleth, a personal safety educator, certified RAD self-defense instructor, speaker, and author of Aware: A Personal Safety Playbook for Leaving the Nest. Gale brings a deep background in crime prevention and safety education, including 16 years at Cal State East Bay and 16 years as a crime prevention specialist with the Hayward Police Department. Personal safety is not about walking around scared or suspicious of everyone. It is about giving yourself a few simple habits to fall back on when something feels off, so you can pause, read the situation, and decide what to do next.
We talk about Gale's AWARE method, the idea that most safety starts with education, and the small choices that can matter more than people realize: putting the phone away in a parking lot, noticing exits when you walk into a building, and trusting that uneasy feeling instead of brushing it off. Gale also explains what makes someone a useful witness, why details matter, and how awareness can help without turning everyday life into something fearful.
Show Notes:
[01:00] S. Gale Bleth shares how her career began in higher education, where she worked with student organizations, supported campus events, and discovered her interest in teaching and training.
[03:10] A campus safety role led to RAD self-defense training, which eventually became a major part of Gale's work and helped shape her approach to personal safety education.
[05:28] How children's safety training has evolved, including the continued importance of stranger awareness and helping kids recognize uncomfortable touch.
[07:00] The meaning behind Gale's AWARE method: Alert, Watch, Assess, Respond, and Escape.
[09:36] A practical example of how the AWARE method can help someone assess risk in a social setting and decide whether to stay or leave.
[13:10] Why people need to trust the feeling that something is off instead of dismissing their instincts or ignoring their surroundings.
[15:00] Cooper's color code of awareness explains the difference between being unaware, casually alert, actively concerned, and forced to respond in danger.
[18:00] Education plays a major role in personal safety because it helps people avoid freezing or panicking when something unexpected happens.
[19:45] The importance of knowing escape routes in public places, especially at concerts, restaurants, theaters, and other crowded locations.
[22:13] What it looks like when someone's behavior does not match the setting, and why that can be a signal to pay closer attention.
[24:30] How to balance awareness with basic kindness when interacting with people who may seem unstable, angry, or unpredictable.
[27:58] Confident body language, voice, and boundaries can help people protect themselves before a situation escalates physically.
[28:33] Why phones create vulnerability in parking garages, airports, travel settings, and other places where attention matters.
[31:45] The AWARE method can become an everyday safety habit that helps people notice, assess, and respond with more confidence.
[33:01] Being a good witness can be more helpful than trying to be a hero, especially when law enforcement needs clear details.
[35:10] Gale explains how to practice observing people, vehicles, direction of travel, clothing, and other details before an emergency happens.
[37:20] Specific details such as tattoos, accents, clothing, weapons, or which direction someone ran can make a witness report much more useful.
[39:34] Vehicle descriptions, license plates, cameras, and direction of flight can all help investigators connect important pieces of information.
[42:33] Gale shares where listeners can find her online and learn more about Aware: A Personal Safety Playbook for Leaving the Nest.
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Everyday conveniences ask for tiny pieces of information all the time like a phone number at checkout, a zip code at the register, an email address for a receipt, or a loyalty account for a small discount. At the moment, it can feel harmless. But those small details can add up quickly, creating a personal profile that businesses, data brokers, scammers, and even people with bad intentions can use in ways most of us never agreed to or fully understood.
My guest today is Ron Zayas, CEO of Ironwall by Incogni. Ron is an online privacy expert, speaker, and author who has helped the judiciary, law enforcement, and public agencies protect personnel by removing personal data from online sources. Since founding the company in 2011, the proactive strategies he developed have helped protect thousands of at-risk professionals, including judges, police officers, public officials, executives, and others who face real-world threats when their private information is exposed.
We talk about why your mobile number has become one of the most valuable identifiers companies can collect, how everyday purchases can reveal more than you think, and why scammers are often looking for the easiest target rather than the hardest one. Ron also shares practical ways to reduce your exposure, from questioning why a business needs your information to using aliases, opting out of data sharing, and removing personal details from online databases. The goal is not to vanish from the world, but to make yourself harder to find, harder to profile, and harder to exploit.
Show Notes:
[01:12] Ron Zayas explains how Ironwall by Incogni protects the privacy of individuals ranging from Supreme Court justices and police officers to corporate executives and everyday consumers.
[04:18] How even a simple pizza order can reveal patterns about a person's life, including family structure, work schedule, and daily routines.
[07:43] We talk about how selling personal data became its own revenue stream, sometimes making customer information more profitable than the original product or service.
[10:41] Practical privacy habits come into focus, including removing registration cards from cars, questioning why businesses need certain information, and refusing to provide details that are not necessary.
[13:17] A real-world scam example shows how urgency, voice recordings, and personal details gathered from social media can quickly override someone's judgment.
[16:24] We discuss email aliases and phone aliases as tools for limiting exposure and tracking which companies may be sharing or selling personal information.
[19:28] How personal data can become dangerous beyond marketing, especially when sensitive purchase patterns or location information can be tied to legal, medical, or personal risks.
[22:19] How GPS data can be filtered by home and work locations to reveal a person's daily route, stops, habits, and family routines.
[25:39] The data broker industry is described as a massive business, with profiles that can contain thousands of data points about a single person.
[28:42] We talk about how privacy habits become easier with practice and why reducing the amount of available information makes someone a harder target.
[31:17] How much effort people should realistically expect to put into protecting their information, starting with prevention and asking how little information a company actually needs.
[34:13] Practical ways to reduce transaction tracking include using chip cards, virtual credit card numbers, deletion requests, and opt-out forms from financial institutions.
[37:28] The conversation shifts to Ironwall's higher-risk work protecting people who may face physical danger, including judges, police officers, elected officials, executives, and domestic violence victims.
[40:09] The difference between Incogni and Ironwall becomes clear, with Incogni focused on consumer privacy concerns and Ironwall focused on people who need stronger protection from real-world threats.
[42:17] We talk about "suckers lists" and how people who have already been scammed may become targets for recovery scams and follow-up fraud.
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Ron Zayas - Ironwall by Incogni
Ironwall
Ron Zayas - LinkedIn

Scams are often explained as a failure of judgment, but the truth is far more human. People are not fooled because they are foolish. They are manipulated at the exact moment emotion overrides logic, whether that emotion is fear, loneliness, hope, urgency, financial stress, or the desire to believe something better is finally possible.
My guest today is Dr. John Demartini, one of the world's leading authorities on human behavior, perception, resilience, and personal development. For more than five decades, he has researched, written, and taught in the fields of human awareness and potential. He is the founder of the Demartini Method, a structured process used around the world by clinicians, coaches, and individuals to help dissolve emotional trauma, restore clarity, and support better decision-making. He is also the author of more than 40 books, has spoken in over 100 countries, and has worked with tens of thousands of people navigating everything from personal crises to high performance.
Dr. Demartini explains why scammers are so effective at exploiting emotional blind spots, especially when someone is dealing with loss or uncertainty. We talk about what happens in the brain when a person reacts before they think, why "too good to be true" offers can feel so convincing in the moment, and how people can recover after being deceived without turning shame into part of their identity. 
Show Notes:
[02:09] Dr. John Demartini shares how a childhood learning challenge, speech impediment, and a powerful encounter with a teacher in Hawaii shaped his lifelong work in human behavior and potential.
[03:08] Scams, fraud, and the emotional impact these experiences have on people beyond the mechanics of how money moves.
[04:31] Why scammers exploit emotions like fear, loneliness, urgency, hope, greed, trust, authority, and compassion to push people into reactive decisions.
[07:30] We learn how pain points and pleasure points make people vulnerable, especially when scammers know how to present relief, reward, or escape in the exact area where someone feels exposed.
[08:22] Dr. Demartini shares a story about his son being targeted by a money-making scam and how he quickly recognized the promise of turning $2,000 into $20,000 as a classic red flag.
[10:32] The difference between emotional, fast-response thinking and more objective thinking, and why "too good to be true" offers should immediately trigger caution.
[11:56] Why one-sided promises are dangerous, whether they are built around fantasy, fear, or a claim that reward comes without risk.
[13:09] Dr. Demartini explains why people going through major transitions, loss, financial pain, or relationship struggles are often targeted by scammers.
[14:50] Money, investing, and why excitement can be a warning sign when someone is being pushed toward a financial decision.
[16:40] How scams often succeed when people believe they can get a reward without an equal risk.
[18:00] The aftermath of scams and how people can avoid letting one painful experience become part of their identity.
[19:04] A story about a man who lost hundreds of millions of dollars and began to see the hidden gains, lessons, and protections that came from the loss.
[22:55] How asking better questions can help someone reframe a painful experience and move from feeling like a victim of history to becoming more intentional about the future.
[24:40] Romance scams and the difficult moment when victims realize they may not only struggle to trust others, but also struggle to trust themselves.
[25:49] How people can rebuild self-trust by examining what the experience taught them instead of staying stuck in shame or self-blame.
[27:28] We discuss prevention, including how to listen to the inner warning voice when something feels emotionally extreme or too perfectly one-sided.
[29:25] Examples of recognizing suspicious behavior and using direct questions to disrupt situations where someone may be trying to manipulate or exploit him.
[31:10] We hear about a seminar speaker making unrealistic promises about fast wealth and bestseller success, and why that kind of highly polished fantasy can pull people in.
[33:15] The value of having trusted people as sounding boards, especially when emotions make it harder to see a decision clearly.
[34:11] How people around us often see what we miss and why asking others for input can reduce the risk of acting impulsively.
[35:44] Why trust should be based on understanding what someone is truly dedicated to, not on expecting them to share our values or fantasies.
[38:22] How identifying your highest values can make you less vulnerable to manipulation and more grounded in your decisions.
[39:23] The value determination process, including the questions that reveal how people actually spend their time, energy, money, attention, and emotional focus.
[41:43] Advice for people who have been scammed, encouraging them to see the experience as a revealed blind spot rather than a permanent source of shame.
[43:07] A reminder that sharing a painful experience can help others feel less alone and may prevent someone else from falling into the same trap.
Thanks for joining us on Easy Prey. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review. 
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Dr. John Demartini
The Demartini Value Determination Process
Books by Dr. John Demartini

Investment losses can be confusing because they do not always tell the whole story. Sometimes money is lost because the market has changed. Other times, an investor was sold something they did not understand, pushed into a product that was never appropriate, or denied the information they needed to make a real decision. Courtney Werning has built her career in that space, helping investors sort through what happened and whether someone can be held responsible.
Courtney is a named partner at Meyer, Wilson, and Werning, a national investor protection firm that has recovered more than $350 million since 1999. She leads the firm's crypto investment fraud practice through CryptoCourt, serves on FINRA's National Arbitration and Mediation Committee, and is the incoming PIABA president. In this conversation, she explains the difference between a bad investment, misrepresentation, misconduct, Ponzi schemes, and the newer wave of crypto fraud that has become especially devastating for older investors.
We also talk about the warning signs people often miss, from guaranteed returns and "secret" opportunities to unsolicited messages on social media, WhatsApp, LinkedIn, and Instagram. Courtney shares why trusted contacts on brokerage accounts matter, how recovery scams target people who have already been defrauded, and why it is so important to verify lawyers, financial advisors, and investment opportunities before sending money anywhere.
Show Notes:
[00:57] Courtney Werning explains how she became an investor protection attorney and why representing regular investors against large Wall Street institutions has been such meaningful work.
[03:29] Investment losses do not always mean misconduct occurred, but Courtney explains how negligence, misrepresentation, unsuitable recommendations, and outright fraud can create valid claims.
[05:25] Misrepresentation often happens when investors are not given the material facts they need to understand risks, fees, liquidity issues, or the potential loss of principal.
[07:19] Many investors don't know what they were missing until after a product fails and an attorney reviews what should have been disclosed.
[09:22] Ponzi schemes continue to appear in many forms, using new investor money to pay earlier investors until the scheme eventually collapses.
[12:01] Scammers build confidence by showing early returns, encouraging victims to invest more, and making the opportunity feel safe before the larger loss occurs.
[14:44] Cryptocurrency fraud losses have climbed sharply, and Courtney explains why the reported numbers likely represent only part of the true scale.
[17:03] Repeated scam playbooks, fake insider connections, AI tools, voice replication, and polished platforms make crypto fraud increasingly difficult to recognize.
[19:54] A trusted contact on a brokerage account can give firms a way to alert someone the investor trusts when unusual activity or possible exploitation appears.
[22:27] Trusted contacts work more like emergency contacts than account controllers, helping preserve independence while adding a layer of protection.
[24:35] Once someone realizes they may have been defrauded, the first steps are shutting down the account, contacting law enforcement, and getting legal guidance.
[27:29] Even if months or years have passed, some losses may still be recoverable, though quick reporting gives law enforcement the best chance of stopping funds.
[30:06] Recovery scams prey on people who are already panicked, promising to trace or retrieve stolen crypto in exchange for more money.
[31:29] Courtney shares the devastating case of a Modesto man who lost millions in a pig butchering scam and was later pressured with fake insider trading threats.
[34:11] A trusted contact was listed on the victim's account, and Courtney believes a brief phone call to his wife could have prevented both the financial loss and the tragedy that followed.
[36:39] Investor recovery cases are often handled on contingency, which means firms must evaluate whether litigation can realistically benefit the client.
[39:12] Because the firm is selective about the cases it takes, Courtney says clients offered representation can usually feel confident there is a strong case.
[40:18] Unsolicited messages on social media, WhatsApp, LinkedIn, Instagram, or X should be treated with extreme skepticism, especially when investment opportunities are involved.
[42:25] Hacked social media accounts can make scams appear to come from trusted local figures, friends, or family members.
[44:06] Secret or exclusive investment opportunities that cannot be discussed openly are major red flags, especially if someone coaches the investor on what to say.
[45:06] Courtney explains how to contact her firm, verify that an attorney is real through a state bar search, and check financial professionals through FINRA BrokerCheck.
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Courtney Werning - Meyer Wilson Werning
Courtney Werning - LinkedIn
FBI's IC3
FINRA BrokerCheck