Legal Spirits

Cities Church (MPR News)

In this episode—the first in a new series of Legal Spirits law-and-religion short takes—Mattone Center Director Mark Movsesian offers an initial assessment of the recent anti-ICE protest at Cities Church in Minnesota. He explains what is known so far, the legal issues the episode raises, and why those issues matter beyond this particular controversy. Whatever the merits of the underlying cause, he argues, intruding into a private worship service infringes a core understanding of the free exercise of religion. Listen in!

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In this episode, Mattone Center Director Mark Movsesian speaks with Judge Ioannis Ktistakis of the European Court of Human Rights about his career as an advocate, scholar, and international judge, and about emerging religious-freedom challenges facing Europe. They explore the role of the European Court—which Judge Ktistakis describes as “the Constitutional Court of Europe”—and examine how it supports the protection of fundamental rights across the continent. The conversation offers U.S. lawyers and law students a rare inside look at the Court’s internal workings and its approach to sensitive questions of law and religion.

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Thomas Jefferson’s 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists—better known for its reference to a “wall of separation” between church and state—was little remembered until Chief Justice Morrison Waite revived it in Reynolds v. United States (1879). With the help of historian George Bancroft, Waite transformed Jefferson’s passing metaphor into a constitutional principle, despite Jefferson’s limited role in drafting the First Amendment. In this episode of Legal Spirits, historians Don and Lisa Drakeman join Center Director Mark Movsesian to explore how Jefferson’s words, and even his passion for French wine, helped shape the Court’s Religion Clause jurisprudence—and to consider what lessons today’s Justices should draw about the risks of using history in constitutional interpretation. Listen in!

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Map: The Conversation

In Episode 70 of Legal Spirits, Center Director Mark Movsesian speaks with Dan Harre, Deputy Director of Save Armenia, about a significant—and controversial—draft agreement between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Brokered last month at the White House, the terms reflect a major realignment in the region: Armenia relinquishes any claim to Nagorno Karabakh, Azerbaijan backs off earlier demands for extraterritorial control, and the United States gains a 99-year lease on a key new transit route.

The episode explores how U.S. foreign policy, Christian advocacy, and strategic infrastructure intersect in the South Caucasus. Dan offers a perspective from within the U.S. advocacy world—one shaped by a broader movement to defend Christian communities in places like Iraq and Syria. The episode also considers how groups like Save Armenia navigate diplomatic tensions between Armenia and Israel, and how this moment relates to past decisions about American involvement in Armenian affairs, including the post-WWI mandate the U.S. ultimately declined.

What role did American Christian organizations play in this deal? What’s in it for the United States? And is this a turning point in Armenia’s future? Listen in!

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Source: National Archives

In this episode of Legal Spirits, Center Director Mark Movsesian talks with legal scholar Steven D. Smith about a question that goes to the heart of American law and politics: What happens when people stop believing in “the consent of the governed”? Drawing on Smith’s new paper, The Collapse of Consent, they explore how this once-powerful idea has shifted over time—from a principle rooted in natural law and divine authority to a secular fiction that’s becoming harder to sustain. In an increasingly polarized society, can America’s founding narrative still hold us together? A deep and thought-provoking conversation about legitimacy, identity, and the future of our legal order.

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