Unreserved Wine Talk

• 330: The Surprising Science of Booze and Wine with Adam Rogers

  How does language about wine impact the way we experience and enjoy wine? How does reporting on alcohol science compare to other scientific topics? Why can yeast be described as a nano-technological machine? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Adam Rogers, author of the New York Times bestseller Proof: The Science of Booze. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks   Giveaway One of you is going to win a copy of his terrific new book, Full Spectrum: How the Science of Color Made Us Modern. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose one person randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights What was Adam’s experience at a fancy restaurant in Chicago where food critic Jeffrey Steingarten was a fellow patron? How did a New York restaurant experience expose Adam to the wild science of winemaking? Why did Adam nearly have an existential moment while writing about the science of grapes? How does reporting on alcohol science compare to other scientific topics? Which moments did Adam want to capture in the book? What were the most surprising insights Adam uncovered while writing Proof and what was the most difficult part of writing it? Why does Adam describe yeast as a nano-technological machine? Which facts about yeast did Adam find fascinating? What have archaeologists discovered about the role of alcohol in early human civilization? Which cultural approach to alcohol consumption did Adam find most interesting? How do modern brewers and distillers safeguard their yeast?   Key Takeaways Adam recounts the story of the couple sitting next to him ordering a dessert wine. The diner asked, “Is that a Vin du Glacier or a noble rot?” The two different ways to make a sweet wine. Just the fact that the diner was informed enough to know that there were these two methods would have a bearing on what he would be tasting. Here was this person operationalizing that interest to make his meal better. He wanted to have more fun. If you're reporting on science, you have the scientists trying to understand something new or reinterpret understanding and then there are people who that's going to affect. With winemaking, you have practitioners who are often not themselves, scientists. So they are craftspeople in a stakeholder role too. Louis Pasteur said I think there is an impossibly small, invisible, living creature that eats sugar and poops alcohol, and so the best chemists in the world at that time looked at that as a hypothesis and said, You're nuts. Nobody knew how inert chemicals could be alive. Nobody knew what the connection was. Those things are enzymes and understanding what enzymes do in a living body, that's what gave rise to biochemistry, and ultimately gave rise to biotechnology. That one insight.   About Adam Rogers Adam Rogers is a senior correspondent at Business Insider, where he writes about technology, culture, and the ways they overlap. Prior to joining BI, Adam was a longtime editor and writer at WIRED, where his article “The Science of Why No One Agrees on the Color of This Dress” was the second-most-read thing on the entire internet in 2015. Adam’s WIRED feature story on a mysterious fungus that grows on whisky warehouses won a AAAS/Kavli science journalism award — and led to his 2014 New York Times bestseller Proof: The Science of Booze. Adam is also the author of the 2021 book Full Spectrum: How the Science of Color Made Us Modern. He has also written for Alta, the Atlantic, National Geographic, the New York Times, Slate, and Smithsonian, and may be the only journalist to attend both San Diego Comic-Con and the White House Correspondents Dinner.         To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/330.

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• 329: Tuscan White Wines, Vin Santo and Spirited Sangiovese with Susan Keevil

  What makes Sangiovese a difficult wine to grow and make? Why should you pay attention to the white wines of Tuscany? What do you need to know about Tuscany’s Vin Santo? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Susan Keevil You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks   Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, On Tuscany: From Brunello to Bolgheri, Tales from the Heart of Italy. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights What are some common mistakes people make when comparing Tuscan wines to those from other regions? What are Super Tuscans and how did they come to be? Why did these rebel wines capture the imagination of the world in the 70s and 80s? What’s the new Super Tuscan counter culture about? Why did Brunello di Montalcino achieve icon status? What makes Sangiovese difficult to grow and why doesn’t it tend to thrive in North America? What motivated Susan to include sections on Tuscan white wines and Vin Santo in the book? How is Vin Santo made and why is there so much variety? What makes Tuscan olive oil so special? How can you best pair Tuscan wines with food? Why would Susan love to be able to share a bottle of wine with Queen Elizabeth II?   Key Takeaways Susan notes that Sangiovese is like Pinot Noir in that it likes certain terroir, particular soils, the winds of Tuscany, and it is quite a sensitive grape. You can't overproduce it. It responds differently to different sites and it's not good in every vintage. It has so many parallels with Pinot Noir. They don't taste the same, but they behave the same. Susan likes an underdog story like the white wines of Tuscany, because they're only like 10% of the wines produced, though she believes that the Trebbiano grape is like the evil twin. In the book, Emily O'Hare writes about grapes like Vernaccia, Vermentino and Ansonica that are producing some great wines so we should watch out for them. There's another lovely story about wines of the small island called Giglio. It was raided by the pirate Barbarossa, and he sent all the inhabitants away to be slaves in Constantinople. But he brought back people from a village in Greece, and they bought the grape called Ansonica with them and so those vines are still on the island today. Susan thinks white wines are going to be more important for Tuscany. If you're going to find a comparison, Susan says that Tokaji is a really good one, because it has that bracing acidity that the Italians love as well. But also, you can't generalize with it. It's a 3,000 year-old-wine, and every farm makes a different version. In the past, they used to collect these grapes because they couldn't handle all the olives and all the grapes all at once. So they would leave some of the grapes in the drying lofts, up in the roofs. They would dry, and concentrate, and the sugars would get sweeter. When everything settled in November or March or February, they would make a wine from these beautiful sweet grapes. And they all have their own natural yeast from the air. And they would seed that yeast into the wine, ferment, and then they would lock it up in its barrel and leave it for seven to eight years. It would shrink, it would ferment. It would stop fermenting. And then at the end of that time, they would open the barrel very carefully, and it was something magnificent, but very, very different. Each producer would have their own.   About Susan Keevil Susan Keevil is the Editorial Director of Académie du Vin Library, where she has played a pivotal role in establishing and nurturing this esteemed wine publishing house. A former editor of Decanter magazine, she has dedicated her career to the world of wine, from editorial leadership to in-depth exploration of the industry.         To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/329.

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• 328: On Tuscany: From Brunello to Bolgheri, Tales from the Heart of Italy with Susan Keevil

  How was Brunello discovered? How did the medieval sharecropping system help to shape Tuscany's wine landscape? What's the origin of the iconic black rooster symbol of Chianti Classico? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Susan Keevil, editor of the beautiful hardcover On Tuscany: From Brunello to Bolgheri, Tales from the Heart of Italy. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks   Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, On Tuscany: From Brunello to Bolgheri, Tales from the Heart of Italy. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights What inspired Susan to take on the monumental task of compiling and editing On Tuscany? How is On Tuscany different from other books about the region? What was the most captivating wine story Susan uncovered while working on the book? What was the most surprising insight about Tuscany that Susan discovered while putting together On Tuscany? Why did the timeframe pose the biggest challenge in compiling the book? How did Susan discover and select literary gems about Tuscany from historic writers? Why was it important to Susan to write about the Etruscans? What surprised Susan about the ancient Etruscans’ relationship with wine? How did the medieval sharecropping system help to shape Tuscany's wine landscape? What role did the Medici family play in shaping the wine culture in Tuscany? What was the crisis of Chianti Classico in the 70s and 80s and how did it redefine the future of Tuscan wines? What's the origin of the iconic black rooster symbol of Chianti Classico? Why does Tuscany continue to dominate media and culture when it comes to wine? What’s the history behind the Chianti fiasco?   Key Takeaways How was Brunello discovered? Susan says that from 1875 to 1930, the Biondi Santi family hid bottles of brunello bricked up behind a wall. So after the war, they had these wonderful vintages, and they could say, look how it's aged because they didn't know it aged so well at that stage. That was how the discovery of Brunello came about because they brought these cellared wines to feasts and grand occasions with politicians and monarchs. How did the medieval sharecropping system help to shape Tuscany's wine landscape? Susan observes that it made it beautiful to start with, because we're talking about small holdings. Small farmers gave 40% of what they produced to the owner, the feudal lord, but they had to eke out a living too. So they had their plot of vines, their plot of olive groves, and they put up their cypress trees to defend them from the winds. That gave the beauty to the countryside, because it makes it a jigsaw, it gives it texture when you look at the hills. That way of farming has set up the beauty of Tuscany that we know today. But of course, there was a lot of poverty that went alongside it. What's the origin of the iconic black rooster symbol of Chianti Classico? Susan explains that it came from the 14th century when Siena and Florence were warring as to who was going to be the most powerful of those two towns. They had an agreement that they would send out a horse rider - a knight - early one morning, and wherever those two knights met, would be the boundary between Florence and Siena. The Florentine horse rider set off really early, and they got to within 12 miles of Siena. So the black cockerel is all about strength and having the biggest area.   About Susan Keevil Susan Keevil is the Editorial Director of Académie du Vin Library, where she has played a pivotal role in establishing and nurturing this esteemed wine publishing house. A former editor of Decanter magazine, she has dedicated her career to the world of wine, from editorial leadership to in-depth exploration of the industry.         To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/328.

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• 327: What do Famille Perrin, Torres and Gaja Wines Have in Common that Makes Them Uncommon? Fiona Morrison Goes Behind the Scenes of These Family Businesses

  What is unique about Famille Perrin in France's approach to running their family wine business? How do traditional wine families differentiate their brands and market their wines in a crowded marketplace? How has the Gaja family of Italy made significant contributions to winemaking and the Piemonte community? What is unique about Famille Perrin in France's approach to running their family wine business? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Fiona Morrison. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks   Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, 10 Great Wine Families: A Tour Through Europe. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights How did the Frescobaldi family make a massive impact on the arts in their transition from banking to wine? What were the Frescobaldi family's connections to famous figures like Dante Alighieri and Galileo? How has Angelo Gaja and the Gaja family made significant contributions to winemaking and the Piemonte community? Why is the Liger-Belair family’s vineyard often known as the greatest in the world? What is unique about the Famille Perrin's approach to running their family wine business? How has Álvaro Palacios proven Garnacha’s place as the climate change grape? How do traditional wine families differentiate their brands and market their wines in a crowded marketplace? Do these families view their wines as luxury goods?   Key Takeaways How do traditional wine families differentiate their brands and market their wines in a crowded marketplace? Simplicity and being true to their roots are two key factors Fiona points out. The labels have become much cleaner and are much more sober these days than they were in the past. The Torres family of Spain have done huge amounts on climate change and carbon neutrality and regeneration. In fact, they are, once again, this year, the most admired wine brand. I think it's very important to show that you're paying your dues and you're doing research. It shows how much they are rooted in their heritage and their history. How has the Gaja family of Italy made significant contributions to winemaking and the Piemonte community? If you want to go and taste a Gaja, you need to make a contribution of 300 euros to their various charities they support. Piemonte is still quite a poor region, and so they want to give back to the community and to the area what they can. Of course, people who drink Gaya wines, which are very expensive, can afford to give a charity donation. It's quite unusual, but I think it's a good solution for them. What is unique about Famille Perrin in France's approach to running their family wine business? There are seven or eight children from the two brothers, Francois and Jean Pierre. Every single one of them has a job in the winery, with each handling a different aspect of the business. This solidarity between so many children, working together, laughing together, tasting together. This is a blueprint for how to run a family business.   About Fiona Morrison MW Fiona Morrison is an international Master of Wine, author, writer and wine merchant who lives in Belgium and Bordeaux and holds both British and Belgian nationalities. She became a Master of Wine in 1994 after studying in America and France. Fiona is married to Jacques Thienpont of Le Pin and currently runs the Thienpont family wine merchant business in Belgium and France. The family owns three estates on Bordeaux's right bank: Le Pin (Pomerol), L'IF (St Emilion) and L'Hêtre (Castillon). Winner of several awards for her writing, including the James Beard Award, her latest book, "10 Great Wine Families", has been published internationally.         To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/327.

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• 326: Who Are The 10 Great Families of Wine? Fiona Morrison Gives Us A Tour Through Europe

  How do you tame a grape like Merlot which actually has higher sugar and alcohol levels than Cabernet Sauvignon? What’s the little-known history behind the cult wines of Le Pin in Bordeaux that sell for as much as $10,000 a bottle when first released and then go up from there at auction? Why is it an advantage to have many stakeholders in family-owned estates? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Fiona Morrison, author of the terrific book 10 Great Wine Families: A Tour Through Europe. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks   Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, 10 Great Wine Families: A Tour Through Europe. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights How did studying literature at the University of Exeter spark Fiona’s interest in the wine industry? How did Fiona meet her husband, Jacques Thienpont of Le Pin? What’s the history behind the renowned Le Pin wines? How would Fiona characterize the 2023 and 2024 vintages of Le Pin? What is it like managing the limited production and high prices of Le Pin? How Le Pin tames Merlot grapes into its highly sought-after wines? What were the challenges Fiona faced in writing about the Thienpont family of which she is a part? How does Fiona's book, 10 Great Wine Families, differ from other books on similar topics? Which aspects of Maurice Healy’s book, Stay With Me Flagons, inspired Fiona’s writing? What are some of the elements that characterize successful multi-generational wine businesses? How did Fiona choose which ten families to profile in her book?   Key Takeaways How do you tame a grape like Merlot which actually has higher sugar and alcohol levels than Cabernet Sauvignon? Merlot is a grape that can be very fleshy, Fiona observes. It doesn't like hot weather. It likes to keep its feet wet. If you shade the fruit a bit and let the grapes ripen, this dappled light effect, then you get a lovely balance, and elegant wine. But if you crop strongly and take off the leaves, the wine can get quite vulgar quickly, very sugary, much more jammy. There's much more sugar and alcohol in Merlot than there is in Cabernet, which may surprise some people. So when we tame Merlot, what we do in the cellar is very little pumping over. We use infusions rather than pumping over and soaking the grapes to get the maceration, like when you’ve got your tea bag in your tea. You have to wet the cap so that it doesn't get dry and tannic. But you're just doing that. You're not punching down or anything like that. What’s the little-known history behind the cult wines of Le Pin in Bordeaux that sell for as much as $10,000 a bottle when first released, then go up from there at auction? As Fiona explains, Le Pin means pine tree. The estate was called Chateau du Pin before Jacques bought it in 1979. It's a fairy tale story. He had heard from his uncle, who had their sister estate, Vieux Chateau Certan, that a magical one hectare of land was coming up for sale. And the family thought it was too expensive to buy, so Jacques, who wasn't married at the time, said, well, one hectare, it's a vegetable garden, I think I can manage that myself. He started off very modestly with a barrel borrowed here, a tank borrowed there, and very artisanal winemaking. Then all hell broke loose in a good way with the release of the 1982 vintage which was tasted by top US expert Robert Parker and it became one of Parker's first 100 point wines. And the rest is history. Why is it an advantage to have many stakeholders in family-owned estates? Fiona notes that much of the book is about how you resolve family conflicts in a business and how you prepare the next generation to take over. She says that having lots of shareholders is actually easier than having just one or two heirs, who face a lot of pressure to take over in the business when in fact they may not want to. Whereas, if you've got 120 shareholders, chances are there's at least a few that are actually interested in wine, and will go into it. Lamberto Frescobaldi, who is 30th generation of his family, has instituted a very strict qualifying process for anyone who wants to come into the business. They have to be wine lovers, university-educated and have some business and wine experience. So you can't just be to the manor born. You really do need to have paid your dues before you get into this business. It's not a privileged business. It's probably one of the most complicated businesses, and it's very easy to lose money and it's quite difficult to make money.   About Fiona Morrison MW Fiona Morrison is an international Master of Wine, author, writer and wine merchant who lives in Belgium and Bordeaux and holds both British and Belgian nationalities. She became a Master of Wine in 1994 after studying in America and France. Fiona is married to Jacques Thienpont of Le Pin and currently runs the Thienpont family wine merchant business in Belgium and France. The family owns three estates on Bordeaux's right bank: Le Pin (Pomerol), L'IF (St Emilion) and L'Hêtre (Castillon). Winner of several awards for her writing, including the James Beard Award, her latest book, "10 Great Wine Families", has been published internationally.         To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/326.

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