Unreserved Wine Talk

How did winemakers first figure out how to remove alcohol from wine without destroying it? Why is it so difficult to perfect the flavours and aromas in wine once the alcohol is removed? Why do some non-alcoholic wines keep their fruity aromas while others seem to lose everything? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Dr Wes Pearson, a senior research scientist at the Australian Wine Research Institute in Adelaide. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Highlights How was the German winemaker, Carl Jung, a pioneer in the field of no and low alcohol wine? Why is the reverse osmosis process better suited to small alcohol adjustments rather than full dealcoholization? How has the spinning cone column become one of the most effective tools for removing alcohol from wine? Why is it so challenging to preserve flavour and aroma in non-alcoholic wines? Why are low alcohol wines often more successful than alcohol free wines? How can vineyard and fermentation choices reduce alcohol while preserving wine character? Why do lower alcohol wines preserve a sense of place more successfully than fully de-alcoholized wines? How do beer producers have more technical options for making low alcohol products than winemakers? What is the connection between alcohol and mouthfeel? Why is Sauvignon Blanc often the most successful base for alcohol free wine? How does Wes envision the future of non alcoholic wine?   Key Takeaways How did winemakers first figure out how to remove alcohol from wine without destroying it? The story goes that Carl Jung was somewhere in India, in the Himalayas, and he noticed that water boiled at a lower temperature and started thinking about, oh, well you know, they had a family winery and I wonder if we can take ethanol out if we boiled it at a lower temperature. Understanding, of course, classic distillation ethanol boils at around 70-something degrees and water would boil at 100. So you could boil your ethanolic solution, remove the ethanol, trap it on this side, leave your water here or whatever solution you have your ethanol in, and then keep the ethanol. That's classic distillation. Normally we keep the distillate, we keep the alcohol, and get rid of what we've taken it out of. Now we want to keep what we've taken it out of and get rid of the ethanol. So that was the whole premise behind vacuum distillation. Why is it so difficult to perfect the flavours and aromas in wine once the alcohol is removed? When that wine comes off the spinning cone column, it's not a pleasant drink. It's extremely acidic. You've concentrated the acids by about a third, and as well, you've lost all the flavor. Also the flavor that balances out all that acid is gone as well. We need to do a lot of work in building that back up. We should use more tools that we have to try to build some of these up, to build flavor. Now, of course, from the economics behind this, these are not expensive products. So we can't just whack everything in there and hope for the best. We have to have some judiciousness when it comes to how much these things cost and how much you can add, and how we can do this to recover what we've taken out and put back so that it's more cost effective. This is all part of the research that we're working on. Why do some non-alcoholic wines keep their fruity aromas while others seem to lose everything? When the yeast eat the sugar in the grape juice, those sugars are all attached to all kinds of other chemical compounds. The yeast come along, they eat the sugar, and release the flavor compound. And so those fermentation products, most of them are esters and organic acids. Now the esters are the really pretty things that we smell, all the fruity flavors. And the organic acid portions of those, they're less appealing. Now, when you put those through the dealcoholization machine, the spinning cone column in particular, you get the stinky stuff staying, and you get the nice stuff going. Within Sauvignon Blanc, you lose the acetate, but actually three-mercaptohexanol smells lovely. It smells like passion fruit, and so that stays. Where if your wine doesn't have thiols, something like Chardonnay, which is much lower in thiols, you don't get that retention of that character.   About Dr. Wes Pearson Dr Wes Pearson is a senior research scientist and sensory group manager at the Australian Wine Research Institute in Adelaide. He holds a BSc in Wine Biochemistry from the University of British Columbia, a diploma in Applied Sensory and Consumer Science from the University of California Davis and a PhD from Charles Sturt University. He has worked in the sensory group at the AWRI since 2010 and has completed hundreds of sensory studies and authored over 25 research papers in that time. He is an alumnus of the Len Evans Tutorial and of Wine Australia's Future Leaders program and sits on the board of directors for the McLaren Vale Grape Wine and Tourism Association. He has judged at multiple capital city and regional wine shows and has been an educator/judge for the AWRI's Advanced Wine Assessment Course for more than a decade. He is also an accomplished winemaker, having made wine in Canada and France, and currently makes wine under his Juxtaposed label in McLaren Vale, South Australia.           To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/371.

What really happens when the world's most expensive wines are tasted blind, without their labels or reputations? Why is the Len Evans Tutorial considered such a valuable experience in the wine world? How did Grenache go from a filler grape to one that producers take seriously? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Dr Wes Pearson, a senior research scientist at the Australian Wine Research Institute in Adelaide. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Highlights How did a curiosity for astrophysics shape Wes's mindset as a wine researcher and sensory scientist? Why does Wes believe that the more you learn about wine, the more you realize how little you know? Why does Wes see scientific research and hands-on winemaking as complementary approaches? What role did the Len Evans Tutorial play in shaping his palate and wine judging standards? What is it like to taste hundreds of benchmark wines blind, including Domaine de la Romanée Conti? How did Wes's internship at Château Léoville Las Cases reveal the depth of precision and investment behind elite Bordeaux wines? What drew Wes to McLaren Vale and how did the region reshape his priorities as a winemaker? Why was Grenache long treated as a filler grape in McLaren Vale? How does sensory science work to eliminate bias? Why are trained professionals often excluded from traditional sensory panels? What kinds of unconscious bias can labels, color, and context introduce when tasting wine? How does pivot profiling allow winemakers and sommeliers to use their technical language productively? What's behind the rapid improvement in no and low alcohol wines?   Key Takeaways The current vintage of the Romanée-Conti Grand Cru, or that vineyard, is about $15,000 on release. They're not wines that are generally bought and drunk. They're bought as investments. And they're kind of these holy grail wines that you would never get a chance to see otherwise. And not only is it great to taste them, but you taste them blind. The Len Evans Tutorial is a one-week immersive tasting session with the world's greatest wines. Not just Australian wines. You have a bracket of Pinot Noir, and within that, you've got DRC and you've also got all of the great Australian examples as well. It's meant to set your benchmarks for what is the world standard and what is the Australian standard. Historically, Grenache was the filler in blends. Grenache loves the heat so you can leave it out in the vineyard. The Shiraz has to come in first. "We'll get the Grenache later when we have some space in the winery." It was used to fill up the blends. It had lots of flavor. It always had lots of alcohol as well. Then around 2010, a few producers started saying, we've got some pretty good resource here. Maybe we should think about investing a bit more time and effort into what we've got with Grenache.   About Dr. Wes Pearson Dr Wes Pearson is a senior research scientist and sensory group manager at the Australian Wine Research Institute in Adelaide. He holds a BSc in Wine Biochemistry from the University of British Columbia, a diploma in Applied Sensory and Consumer Science from the University of California Davis and a PhD from Charles Sturt University. He has worked in the sensory group at the AWRI since 2010 and has completed hundreds of sensory studies and authored over 25 research papers in that time. He is an alumnus of the Len Evans Tutorial and of Wine Australia's Future Leaders program and sits on the board of directors for the McLaren Vale Grape Wine and Tourism Association. He has judged at multiple capital city and regional wine shows and has been an educator/judge for the AWRI's Advanced Wine Assessment Course for more than a decade. He is also an accomplished winemaker, having made wine in Canada and France, and currently makes wine under his Juxtaposed label in McLaren Vale, South Australia.           To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/370.

How did one Viognier go from the brink of extinction to being planted around the world? Why is the Mistral one of the most miserable experiences for people, yet a saviour for Rhône vineyards? Why is working with bush vines so much harder than trellised vineyards? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Matt Walls, author of the terrific new book The Smart Traveller's Wine Guide to the Rhone Valley. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of Matt Walls' terrific new book, The Smart Traveller's Wine Guide to the Rhone Valley. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights What are the famous galets roulés of Châteauneuf du Pape and what is it like to experience them in person? How do the galets affect vineyard work and vine training? What is the Mistral wind and why is it both miserable for people and essential for vineyard health? Why is Hermitage Hill considered one of the clearest visual explanations of terroir anywhere in France? What does tasting Hermitage at the top of the hill reveal about the emotional connection to place and wine? How does whole bunch fermentation change the aroma, texture, and alcohol level of Syrah in the northern Rhône? How close did Viognier come to extinction after World War II, and who was responsible for saving it in Condrieu? What makes Viognier from Condrieu feel different than versions grown in warmer regions? How did Château Rayas redefine Châteauneuf-du-Pape? Why did the extreme heat of the 2022 vintage affect Rhône wines? Why is Tavel better understood as a pale red rather than a modern Rosé?   Key Takeaways How did one Viognier go from the brink of extinction to being planted around the world? Very close. So there was about 6 or 7 hectares left... about the size of three football pitches. That's it. That was the only place in the world. I mean, that's where it comes from. In the 1960s and after the Second World War, a lot of the vineyards died. People couldn't fetch high prices for wine, so quantity was more important than quality. So people were just planting on the flat, basically where it was easy to farm instead of on the slopes of Condrieu, which are very difficult to grow on. So it got pretty much abandoned. It was down to one man whose name was Georges Vernay from Domaine Georges Vernay, which still exists today, still makes excellent wines. And he rallied the local winemakers. He believed in the grape. He knew how good it could be, and he encouraged people to replant, to rework the vineyards and, and saved the grape. You find it all around the world. And so if it wasn't for Georges back in the 60s, deciding, no, I want to save this variety, maybe we wouldn't have it at all, which would be terrible. Why is the Mistral one of the most miserable experiences for people, yet a saviour for Rhône vineyards? The mistral is a very strong north wind. It whistles down the valley. It can be extremely boisterous. It's cold north wind. if it's quite a hot day, it's never nice. It's always horrible. Even on a hot day. When it blows hard, it can be quite difficult to stand up in a vineyard. It's an amazing phenomenon. It's cold and it's really dry. So often when it does rain in the southern Rhône and in the northern Rhône, you risk getting vineyard diseases. But the mistral often it blows after it rains. So it will dry out the vineyards. It's like a natural disinfectant. it means that you can keep your grapes hanging on the vine for longer. So it is a huge benefit. Why is working with bush vines so much harder than trellised vineyards? You hear about these galets roulés, these rounded stones, but when you see them, just in the vineyards for as far as the eye can see, they're very striking to see and difficult to walk on. you can quite easily turn your ankle if you're not careful with what you're doing. So if you're in a vineyard of galets, what you'll see is these bush vines. That's the most common way of training vines in the southern Rhône, particularly Châteauneuf-du-Pape. You do see a bit of trellising, but with Grenache, you don't have to… they're naturally self-supporting. With Syrah, for example, you do have to train it on wires because it just grows like mad, and otherwise it would just be flopping around all over the floor. And you need to lift up the foliage in order to get it exposed to the sun and get the grapes off the ground. Grenache doesn't grow in such an exuberant fashion. It grows a little bit more slowly, and the trunks get a little bit thicker. But they're much harder to work as well. So, the thing about those bush vines is that you have to tend them in a 360 degree fashion rather than trellis vines, which you kind of have to work on both sides, but without kind of working around it 360 degrees. But the galets… they are troublesome and they are difficult to move and they take a lot of strength. So, yeah, I wouldn't like to work on them personally. That takes a lot of work.   About Matt Walls Matt Walls is an award-winning freelance wine writer, author and consultant who contributes to various UK and international publications such as Club Oenologique and Decanter, where he is a contributing editor. He also judges wine and food competitions, develops wine apps and presents trade and consumer tastings. Matt is interested in all areas of wine, but specialises in the Rhône Valley – he is Regional Chair for the Rhône at the Decanter World Wine Awards.           To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/369.

Which French wine region banned flying saucers from landing in its vineyards and why is the rule still there? How did the devastating February 1956 frost reshape the southern Rhône into the vineyard landscape we know today? What sets the northern Rhone apart from the south in terms of grapes and winemaking style? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Matt Walls, author of The Smart Traveller's Wine Guide to the Rhone Valley. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of Matt Walls' terrific new book, The Smart Traveller's Wine Guide to the Rhone Valley. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights How did a family picnic become a memorable introduction to the northern Rhone? How did a visit to a small producer in Crozes Hermitage turn into an unforgettable travel mishap? Why does Châteauneuf du Pape have a rule specifically forbidding the landing of flying saucers in vineyards? How is the Rhone Valley laid out geographically and what distinguishes the northern Rhone from the southern Rhone? How much wine does the Rhone produce each year compared to other regions in France? What was the moment that made Matt fall in love with Hermitage wines? What was it like for Matt to move his family from London to a village near Avignon? How does the culture of Rhone winemakers differ from regions like Bordeaux or Champagne? What practical advice does Matt have for getting the most out of visits to Rhone wineries? What makes The Smart Traveler's Wine Guide to the Rhone Valley different from other wine books? What unexpected part of his research led Matt to fall in love with Lyon?   Key Takeaways Within the Châteauneuf-du-Pape, the cahiers des charges, which is basically the rulebook on how you're allowed to make wine within the appellation, has a statement that says, "Winemakers may not use their vineyards to land flying saucers." This was put in in the 1960s, when there was a big panic about flying saucers and little green men. I think it's easier just to leave it there than to go through the whole rigmarole for getting it removed. The devastating February 1956 frost was a turning point in how people lived, worked, and farmed in the southern Rhone. Before that point, it was very much a kind of polycultural land. Individual estates would have olives, grapevines, fig trees, carrots, wheat, and so it was a mixed agriculture. But after 1956, this really wiped out the olive trees. People needed something that would give them a crop immediately in order for them to survive and chose grapevines. One of the big differences between the northern Rhone and the southern Rhone is that the northern Rhone, they only use one red grape variety, which is Syrah. In the south, they have a whole smorgasbord of different grape varieties and the culture there is to blend. Also they have quite a single-vineyard way of working. The estates tend to be very small in the northern Rhone compared to the southern Rhone.   About Matt Walls Matt Walls is an award-winning freelance wine writer, author and consultant who contributes to various UK and international publications such as Club Oenologique and Decanter, where he is a contributing editor. He also judges wine and food competitions, develops wine apps and presents trade and consumer tastings. Matt is interested in all areas of wine, but specialises in the Rhône Valley – he is Regional Chair for the Rhône at the Decanter World Wine Awards.           To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/368.

Why are so many Swiss vineyards planted on dangerous terrain? How do the "three suns of Lavaux" shape the ripeness and character of Chasselas? Which unexpected historical figure owns the world's smallest vineyard in Switzerland? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Simon Hardy, author of the terrific new book The Smart Traveller's Wine Guide to Switzerland. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks.   Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of Simon Hardy's terrific new book, The Smart Traveller's Wine Guide to Switzerland. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights What makes Switzerland's vertiginous vineyards some of the most dangerous in the world to farm? How do growers move grapes from inaccessible cliffside plots during harvest? Why were vineyards historically planted on seemingly impossible terrain? What triggered Switzerland's quality revolution in the 1980s, and how did opening trade with the European Union transform the country's wine standards? How do the "three suns of Lavaux" shape the ripeness and character of Chasselas? Why does the Dalai Lama own the world's smallest vineyard and how did it become a wine tourism landmark? What makes Completer one of Switzerland's most unusual native grapes? How did the Three Lakes region popularize the term "eye of the partridge" for pale Rosé and why did it slip beyond their control? What does the Röstigraben reveal about Switzerland's linguistic and cultural divide? If you were visiting Switzerland's wine regions for the first time, which areas are must-visits? How do raclette and chocolate highlight Switzerland's expression of terroir? Why might export growth and wine tourism shape the future of Switzerland's alpine wine identity?     About Simon Hardy Simon Hardy brings a rare blend of multinational brand marketing and entrepreneurial flair in the world of wine. Simon champions Swiss wine in the UK, organising Swiss Wine Week London for Swiss Wine Promotion. He is also the co-founder of Alpina Vina, a cross-border guide to Alpine wine regions, including documentary films he writes and presents. Simon also wrote The Smart Traveller's Wine Guide to Switzerland, which has just been published by the Académie du Vin Library with Club Oenologique. He is also a Regional Ambassador for Switzerland at The Old Vine Conference and a judge for the International Wine Challenge since 2018.         To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/367.