Ascend - The Great Books Podcast

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Donald Prudlo explore the intricate relationship between Plato and St. Thomas Aquinas, examining how Aquinas's thought is influenced by Platonic philosophy while also being rooted in Aristotle.
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They discuss the nuances of Aquinas' understanding of universals, the nature of evil, and the significance of the body in Christian anthropology, highlighting the complexities of Aquinas's intellectual context and the historical development of these philosophical ideas.
They discuss how Aquinas synthesized various philosophical traditions, particularly in his understanding of existence and essence, the role of beauty, and the moral implications of his metaphysics. The dialogue also touches on the early church's reception (or rejection) of Aristotle, the influence of Islamic philosophy, and the evolution of Aquinas' thought throughout his life.
Ultimately, the conversation highlights the richness of Aquinas' philosophy and its relevance to contemporary discussions on faith and reason.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to the Great Books Podcast
03:11 Experiencing the Papal Conclave
06:34 Plato and Aquinas: A Complex Relationship
12:43 Aquinas' Intellectual Evolution
17:02 The Importance of Reading the Great Books
24:25 Platonic Thought in Aquinas' Philosophy
34:48 The Quest for Certitude in Philosophy
37:20 Realism and the Nature of Universals
40:56 Mind-Body Dualism and the Significance of the Body
47:36 The Reception of Aristotle in Early Christianity
54:09 The Distinction Between Essence and Existence
01:04:53 The Role of Beauty in Aquinas' Philosophy
01:06:38 Exploring Beauty in Philosophy
01:11:23 The Role of Beauty in St. Thomas Aquinas
01:13:44 The Ladder of Love and Its Implications
01:19:18 Essence and Existence in Thomistic Thought
01:21:41 The Hierarchy of Being and Divine Wisdom
01:25:22 The Evolution of Aquinas' Thought
01:27:35 Understanding Aquinas Through His Influences
01:30:17 Final Thoughts on Faith and Reason
Takeaways
Aquinas is often mischaracterized as purely Aristotelian.
The relationship between Plato and Aristotle is more complex (and harmonious) than often portrayed.
Aquinas' thought is enriched by both Platonic and Aristotelian influences.
Evil is understood as a privation of the good in Aquinas's philosophy.
Aquinas' understanding of universals differs from both Plato and Aristotle.
The concept of exitus and reditus is a key Neoplatonic idea in Aquinas.
The mind-body dualism presents challenges for Christian thought.
Aquinas retained Platonic emphasis on the...

In this episode of the Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick engages in a profound discussion with Dr. Thomas Ward from Baylor University about Plato's influence on St. Boethius.
The conversation begins with an exploration of Boethius's life, particularly his role as a Roman statesman and philosopher during a tumultuous time in history. Dr. Ward highlights St. Boethius's seminal work, "The Consolation of Philosophy," written while he awaited execution, and discusses its impact on medieval thought and the liberal arts tradition. The dialogue emphasizes St. Boethius's unique position as a bridge between Roman and medieval philosophy, often referred to as the last of the Romans and the first of the medievals.
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As the conversation unfolds, the discussion shifts to the Platonic influences on St. Boethius's writings. Dr. Ward explains how Boethius synthesized Platonic and Aristotelian thought, particularly in his understanding of the good and the nature of happiness. The episode delves into the themes of evil as privation, the nature of true happiness, and the philosophical journey from despair to enlightenment that St. Boethius undergoes in his work.
The dialogue is rich with references to other philosophical texts, including the works of Plato, and draws parallels between Boethius's ideas and those found in the writings of later thinkers like Dante and Aquinas. Overall, the episode serves as a compelling introduction to Boethius's thought and its enduring relevance in the study of philosophy.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to the Great Books Podcast
02:24 Exploring Boethius and His Influence
04:16 Who Was Boethius?
07:49 Boethius: The Last Roman and First Scholastic
10:18 The Liberal Arts and Boethius' Legacy
11:36 Teaching Boethius: A Personal Journey
14:07 Plato's Influence on Boethius
18:50 The Consolation of Philosophy: Setting the Stage
24:31 Lady Philosophy: Deconstruction and Reconstruction
29:58 The Quest for Self-Knowledge
30:51 Fortune and Its Dual Nature
31:53 The Good: Bridging Plato and Christianity
36:19 Happiness and the Divine Connection
40:00 The Paradox of Good and Evil
45:11 The Poetic and Philosophical Fusion
48:44 Evil as Privation: A Platonic Insight
52:08 Boethius: A Synthesis of Philosophical Traditions
Takeaways
Boethius is often called the last of the Romans and the first of the Medievals.
His work, "The Consolation of Philosophy," was written while he awaited execution.
Boethius synthesized Platonic and Aristotelian thought in his writings.
Evil is understood as a privation of good, not a substance in itself.
The journey from despair to enlightenment is central to Boethius's philosophy.

Keywords
Boethius, Plato, Consolation of Philosophy, medieval philosophy, Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Thomas Ward, liberal arts, happiness, evil as privation, philosophy, Deacon Harrison Garlick, great...

How did Plato influence St. Augustine? Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick and Dr. Chad Pecknold of the Catholic University of America discuss Plato's influence on St. Augustine.
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The discussion begins with the historical evolution of Platonism—from the original Academy of Socrates and Plato, through Middle Platonism (with figures like Plutarch and Apuleius), to the late or Neoplatonism of Plotinus and others—showing how it became increasingly religious, mystical, and hierarchical in the Roman Empire, complete with daemons (intermediary spiritual beings) and a strong emphasis on the soul's ascent to the divine.
St. Augustine, after years as a Manichaean and skeptic, encountered Platonic texts (likely including Plotinus) in Milan around 385–386 AD through Christian Platonists like Bishop Ambrose and Simplicianus. These writings played a crucial role in his intellectual conversion: they revealed a transcendent, immaterial God as Being itself, the eternal Word/Logos, and the soul's capacity for contemplative ascent beyond the material world—ideas strikingly parallel to the prologue of John's Gospel.
Yet St. Augustine recognized Platonism's crucial limitation: it allowed him to "catch the fragrance" of God but not to "feast" through union, because it lacked the Word made flesh—the incarnate Christ as the true mediator who bridges the gap between the divine and humanity, solving the problem of mediation and purification that Platonism itself raised but could not resolve.
Ultimately, Pecknold presents Platonism as a providential praeparatio evangelica—a promise that raises the restless heart's longing for God, truth, beauty, and eternal happiness—but one fulfilled only in Christianity. St. Augustine adopts and transforms Platonic elements (such as the ideas/forms residing in the divine mind, now identified with the Logos/Christ, and the soul's ascent through purification) while critiquing its errors, especially its inadequate mediators and inability to address incarnation, bodily resurrection, and grace. In this way, St. Augustine shows that Plato comes closest among philosophers to Christianity, yet only the Word made flesh satisfies the hunger Plato so powerfully articulated.
Plato on St. Boethius is up next week!

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, host Dcn. Harrison Garlick, along with guests Alec Bianco and Sean Berube, explore St. Basil the Great’s letter To Young Men, on the Right Use of Greek Literature, passionately arguing that Christians—especially young men—should actively read pagan classics like Homer, Plato, and Hesiod.
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Drawing on personal testimonies, the trio explains how these pre-Christian texts strengthened their own faith, trained natural virtue, sharpened Scripture reading, and revealed seeds of the Logos planted by divine providence. Through vivid analogies—leaves preparing fruit, bees gathering honey, and despoiling the Egyptians—they, supported by St. Jerome’s defense, contend that pagan literature is not a threat but a providential gift that grace perfects, forming the soul, evoking wonder, and equipping believers to engage the world with confidence and love.
Summary
The conversation highlights how pagan texts address universal human questions—virtue, meaning, fate, and the divine—preparing the soul for revelation, much as leaves nourish fruit on a branch or mirrors help the immature soul see itself. St. Basil’s analogies are unpacked: pagan literature as a shallow pool for beginners, bees selectively gathering honey from flowers, and the need to discriminate good from harmful elements through the standard of Christ. Examples include Odysseus’s restraint with Nausicaa as a model of natural virtue and Socrates’s near-Christian insights on non-retaliation. The guests stress that grace perfects nature, so training in natural virtue via pagan examples elevates rather than diminishes the supernatural call, challenging modern sloth and low expectations of human potential.
Providence is a recurring theme: Hebrew faith and Greek reason converged under Roman order to prepare the world for Christ; parallels in myths (floods, giants, serpents) and the Hellenization of Scripture (Septuagint, New Testament in Greek) show God working through pagan culture. References to Tolkien, Lewis, and Justin Martyr’s logos spermatikos underscore that truth found anywhere belongs to Christians. Music and athletics are explored as parallels—pagan modes and contests can form the soul when approached with discernment, just as Doric tunes sobered revelers in Pythagoras’s story.
The discussion shifts to St. Jerome’s Letter 70, defending the use of secular literature against accusations of defiling the Church. Jerome cites Moses educated in Egyptian wisdom, Paul quoting pagan poets, and analogies like despoiling the Egyptians or David wielding Goliath’s sword—Christianity takes the best of pagan thought and conquers paganism with it. His provocative image of shaving the captive woman (Deuteronomy) to make secular wisdom a “matron of the true Israel” illustrates stripping away seductive errors to reveal underlying beauty and truth.
Ultimately, the episode frames engagement with pagan literature as an act of love: understanding providence, nurturing what is good, evangelizing by meeting souls where they are, and ascending toward the Logos who permeates all reality. The tone is confident and joyful, rejecting both puritanical fear and uncritical consumption in favor of prudent, Christ-centered discernment.
Keywords
Christians read pagans, pagan literature Christians, St Basil pagan literature, St Basil Greek literature, why Christians read Homer, why Christians read Plato, classical education Christianity, great books Christianity, and pagan classics faith. Long-tail keywords to target specific searches are should Christians read pagan literature, why young Christian men read

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast concludes their Christmas reading of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight with Fitt 4, exploring Gawain’s restored armor, journey to the eerie Green Chapel, the three axe swings, Bertilak’s revelations, Morgan le Fay’s role, and the court’s final response.
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The discussion wrestles with Gawain’s girdle lapse, the degree of his fault, the poem’s moral realism, and its enduring vision of chivalry tempered by humility and grace.
Why is this poem worth reading?
This 14th-century gem subverts chivalric romance by relocating true heroism from battlefield glory to internal struggles with fear, courtesy, and faith—revealing with wit, irony, and profound humanity how even the “most faultless” knight bears imperfection. Its vivid poetry, layered symbolism (pentangle, girdle, greenness), and Christmas-liturgical depth offer a timeless meditation on pride, mortality, and divine mercy that meets flawed striving with grace—making it an ideal seasonal read for reflecting on our own hidden fears and the courage to face them.
Key Discussion Points
Restored Armor & Girdle: Gawain’s gleaming armor (rust scraped off) and open wearing of the girdle for self-preservation—symbolizing lingering fear beneath renewed ideal.
Final Temptation: Servant’s offer to lie and let Gawain flee—Gawain refuses, prioritizing truth and fortitude.
Green Chapel: Described as ancient barrow/tomb in wild valley—evoking death, pagan past, nature’s savagery, and satanic dread.
Three Swings: First (flinch), second (feigned), third (nick)—mirroring castle days; nick as merciful penance for girdle fault.
Degree of Error: Guests debate: minor (fear-driven, not malice) yet meaningful lapse in trust/providence; Tolkien downplays, Deacon sees deeper Christian failing.
Morgan le Fay vs. Mary: Opposing feminine forces—malicious fae magic vs. protective providence.
Gawain’s Reaction: Self-reproach, brief blaming of women, then accepting girdle as lifelong humility token.
Court’s Response: Laughter, solidarity—adopting green baldric as fraternity badge, transforming shame into shared emblem.
Old French Motto: “Honi soit qui mal y pense”—Order of the Garter motto reframing girdle as honorable.

Notable Quotes
Banished Kent: “The poem ends on God’s grace… he survives because of that.”
George: “Gawain as anti-Lancelot… and anti-Galahad—more human, more endearing.”

Thank you for joining this Christmas journey through Sir Gawain.
Next week: Why Christians should read the...