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Door one: a prison cell, life without parole, the oldest women's facility in America receiving its most notorious inmate. Door two: a state hospital, commitments renewed twice a year, a release standard she may never satisfy. Psychotherapist Shavaun Scott joins Tony Brueski for the complete three-part interview on why the Lindsay Clancy verdict decides which door — not whether one closes.
Shavaun brings a career of forensic and clinical work to every branch of this story. She explains what incarceration demands of a woman who needs two people to leave her bed, and what a no-parole sentence does to a thirty-six-year-old with no family left outside. She dismantles the assumption that an insanity finding equals mercy, tracing the legal machinery that has kept Andrea Yates hospitalized for two decades after her acquittal. She maps that machinery onto the road ahead for Clancy — including the unresolved expert war over what's actually wrong with her.
And she gives the third figure in this tragedy his due: Patrick Clancy, the father carrying a loss with no name and absorbing accusations his attorneys condemn as patently false. His survival lessons come from Rusty Yates, because no one else alive can offer them.
The complete conversation, all three parts, one sitting. When the verdict lands, you'll understand what it actually decided — and what it never could.

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Fernandez's conviction validated the prosecution's theory that a web of circumstantial evidence can prove a murder-for-hire without direct proof of the ask. Gardner's trial tests whether that same theory holds when the defendant is one more step removed from the gunman — but left a trail of her own words behind.
Gardner's texts to Kim Jensen expressed violent desire regarding Bridegan in language prosecutors will read to the jury. Jensen texted a contact in July 2016 about finding Gardner someone who "performs permanent disappearing acts." Johns testified at a pretrial hearing that multiple people came forward saying Gardner had solicited them. A tattoo shop employee told investigators Gardner said she needed someone to "shut Jared up."
The marital privilege that blocked Jensen from testifying in Fernandez's trial flips in Gardner's case. Gardner's statements to Jensen aren't spousal communications — they're friend-to-friend conversations. The prosecution's most important witness may be fully admissible this time. Gardner's attorney Jose Baez has argued the texts are mischaracterized humor and accused the prosecution of withholding evidence. The jury pool has been expanded to 500 prospective jurors.

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Every step Patrick Clancy has taken since January 2023 has been billed by the public. The divorce cost him sympathy. The move cost him loyalty points. The remarriage cost him the benefit of the doubt. Psychotherapist Shavaun Scott joins Tony Brueski to tally what rebuilding a life after unthinkable loss has actually cost this man — and what it would cost anyone.
Shavaun walks through the clinical reality behind the choices being judged. Trauma survivors are told to re-establish structure, connection, and purpose — precisely the things Patrick pursued with a new city, a new spouse, and the discipline of distance running. She explains why those textbook recovery moves read as guilt to an audience primed for suspicion, and how conspiracy theories fill the space between a tragedy and an explanation people can accept.
The conversation doesn't look away from the darkest part: accusations that he was involved in his children's deaths, condemned by his attorneys as patently false and defamatory. Neither side of the trial has supported those claims — and death threats still reached the woman he married. Shavaun describes what it takes psychologically to absorb that while testifying about the worst night of your life.
Tony ends with the Rusty Yates parallel and a question with no easy answer: when the world won't let you heal in peace, what does healing even look like? The answer is worth the whole episode.

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Clancy was broadcasting her deterioration for months before the killings — to her doctors, to people in her community, to a suicide hotline. That's what the prosecution's own final witness acknowledged under cross-examination on August 26.
Saathoff confirmed that Clancy had been openly reporting intrusive thoughts, dark thoughts, suicidal thoughts, and homicidal ideation to people around her. She called a crisis line and reported suicidal ideation. The hotline determined she had no specific plan and was not hospitalized. The system heard her. What happened on January 24, 2023 happened anyway.
Earlier, Saathoff gave the prosecution the clinical testimony it needed — Clancy acted deliberately, moved through the sequence without direction, and was in control. Then Reddington read the prosecution's opening statement aloud and asked if Saathoff agreed with it. The FBI psychiatrist told the jury the prosecution's own characterization of Clancy as selfish and manipulative "really minimizes what she was going through." Testimony is over. Closing arguments Thursday. The verdict slip now carries four options — including manslaughter, which the prosecution opposed.
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Lindsay Clancy, the 34-year-old Duxbury, Massachusetts mother accused of strangling her three children — 5-year-old Cora, 3-year-old Dawson, and 7-month-old Callan — with exercise resistance bands inside the family's Summer Street home on January 24, 2023, is now hearing the state's closing argument. She faces three counts of murder and three counts of strangulation, has pleaded not guilty, and her attorney Kevin Reddington has built her defense around an insanity claim rooted in postpartum psychosis and psychiatric overmedication.
Assistant District Attorney Jennifer Sprague spent her closing dismantling that narrative point by point. She told jurors Clancy had more support than most new mothers ever get — 18 weeks of maternity leave, family on both sides, and access to care most people can't afford. Sprague didn't deny Clancy was depressed. She just argued depression isn't the story here, and that the providers who treated her did the best they could with what they were told. Which, Sprague pointed out, wasn't much — Clancy never once told a provider she was having thoughts of harming her kids, because she was afraid the police would take them away. Sprague framed that fear as the opposite of psychosis: a rational, calculated act of self-preservation. On the medication question, she was blunt — two prescriptions, no overmedication, and no doctor ever documented signs of psychosis. Her conclusion: Clancy chose to kill her children before she tried to kill herself. Premeditated. Rational. Not a break from reality — a decision.
After the killings, Clancy allegedly attempted suicide by jumping from a second-story window, leaving her paralyzed from the waist down. Her husband, Patrick Clancy, was out running errands at the time and has since relocated to Manhattan. The trial continues in Plymouth Superior Court.
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