Stephan Livera Podcast

• Scaling Bitcoin with ZK Rollups with David Seroy and Sims | SLP644

  In this conversation with Stephan, David and Simanta discuss the implications of ZK Roll-ups for Bitcoin. They explore the benefits of ZK Roll-ups as a scaling solution, the trade-offs compared to other technologies like Lightning Network and sidechains, and the vision behind Alpen Labs. The discussion also touches on the mechanics of ZK Roll-ups, user experience, and the potential impact of BitVM on the ecosystem. The conversation highlights the challenges and limitations of current technology while emphasizing the future possibilities for Bitcoin's programmability and user interaction. David & Simanta also address the risks associated with ZK Rollups, particularly in terms of data availability and trust assumptions, while exploring the future of Bitcoin and the implications of increased data usage on the network.Takeaways🔸ZK Roll-ups provide an alternative scaling solution for Bitcoin.🔸They reduce trust assumptions compared to sidechains.🔸ZK Roll-ups enhance programmability and expressivity for Bitcoin.🔸Alpen Labs aims to build a truly open platform for Bitcoin.🔸The team believes in Bitcoin as the best form of money.🔸ZK Roll-ups can improve user experience and privacy.🔸There are still limitations in Bitcoin's current technology.🔸BitVM introduces new possibilities for ZK Roll-ups.🔸The peg between ABTC and BTC is crucial for functionality.🔸Future user experiences can be more intuitive and secure.  ZK Rollups can leverage existing EVM tooling and network effects.🔸The target users for ZK Rollups are those needing stable coins and borrowing products.🔸Competitive lending solutions on Bitcoin can outperform traditional finance.🔸Minimizing trust assumptions is crucial for the security of ZK Rollups.🔸Data availability is a key challenge that needs addressing in rollups.🔸Users can choose their data availability options based on their needs.🔸The design space for Bitcoin protocols is limited but can be expanded.🔸Covenants could simplify the implementation of ZK Rollups on Bitcoin.🔸Increased data usage on Bitcoin could lead to higher transaction fees.🔸The future of Bitcoin may involve a mix of on-chain and off-chain solutions.Timestamps:(00:00) - Intro(01:00) - What are the benefits of ZK rollups for Bitcoin?(03:55) - What is the role of Alpen Labs in helping scale Bitcoin?(09:32) - Are ZK rollups beneficial to Bitcoin?(11:30) - The mechanics of ZK rollups(18:13) - Challenges and limitations of current tech in Bitcoin(20:47) - Sponsors(23:29) - How does BitVM complement ZK rollups?(31:46) - The experience of using A-BTC for the end user(35:16) - Building the network effects for ZK rollups on Bitcoin(39:11) - Who would be the users of A-BTC?(43:42) - The competitive lending solutions for Bitcoin(46:02) - What are the risks in ZK rollups?(50:47) - Sponsors(51:52) - What is the ‘Data Availability’ problem?(1:04:21) - What is the future of rollups on Bitcoin? Links: https://x.com/david_seroy https://x.com/simanta_gautam https://x.com/alpenlabshttps://www.alpenlabs.io/https://x.com/strata_BTC https://www.alpenlabs.io/blog/introducing-the-strata-bridgehttps://x.com/david_seroy/status/1756719864046317792 Sponsors:Bold BitcoinCoinKite.com (code LIVERA)Lana by GaloyStephan Livera links:Follow me on X: @stephanliveraSubscribe to the podcastSubscribe to Substack

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• Bitcoin Education & Adoption with Niftynei | SLP643

  Lisa, the founder of Base 58 and BTC++, discusses her focus on Bitcoin education and the growth of the Bitcoin++ conference series. She highlights the importance of building a global community of Bitcoin developers and the challenges of funding open-source projects. In this conversation, Lisa and Stephan discuss the evolving landscape of Bitcoin, focusing on decentralization in block construction, the challenges faced by small miners, and the importance of mining incentives. They explore upcoming Bitcoin conferences and their themes, innovations in privacy, and the growth of the Lightning Network. The discussion emphasizes the need for better tooling and understanding of protocol changes to foster Bitcoin adoption and maintain its decentralized nature.Takeaways🔸Lisa spends most of her time on Bitcoin++ events.🔸The Bitcoin++ conference series aims to build a global developer community.🔸There are about 250 full-time developers working on Bitcoin.🔸Funding for Bitcoin development often comes from philanthropy.🔸Education can create cash flow for Bitcoin projects.🔸AI tools are changing how developers create and learn.🔸Community interaction is essential for effective learning.🔸The future of education may focus on entertainment and engagement.🔸Thematic events can enhance the learning experience.🔸Mempools and mining are critical topics in Bitcoin development. Decentralization in block construction is crucial for small miners.🔸Mining incentives must be aligned to ensure network health.🔸Privacy innovations like pay join and silent payments are vital.🔸The Lightning Network is becoming more accessible and widely used.🔸Payments in Bitcoin are driven by network effects among users.🔸Tooling improvements are essential for broader Bitcoin adoption.🔸Understanding Bitcoin protocol changes is necessary for community engagement.🔸Upcoming conferences will focus on diverse themes in Bitcoin technology.🔸Small miners require equal access to mempool transactions.🔸The Bitcoin ecosystem is evolving with new privacy and scaling solutions.Timestamps:(00:00) - Intro(00:56) - What’s currently happening with Base58 & Bitcoin++?(02:19) - The need for growth of Bitcoin conferences(07:15) - What is the size of the Bitcoin developer community?(12:03) - The future of Bitcoin development & education; AI’s impact on Bitcoin learning & development (18:34) - What is the role of community in learning?(20:10) - Sponsors(27:12) - What are the upcoming Bitcoin++ events?(30:09) - Evolution of mempool tools; Mining incentives; Challenges of small miners(36:18) - The importance of various themes in Bitcoin++ conferences (39:27) - Sponsors(41:00) - What are the upcoming privacy innovations in Bitcoin to look forward to?(46:43) - Understanding Bitcoin protocol changes(49:40) - The growth of Lightning Network(55:12) - Closing thoughtsLinks: https://x.com/niftynei https://btcpp.dev/ https://x.com/base58btc https://x.com/btcplusplus Sponsors:Bold BitcoinCoinKite.com (code LIVERA)Lana by GaloyStephan Livera links:Follow me on X: @stephanliveraSubscribe to the podcastSubscribe to Substack

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• Bitcoin-collateralized loans with Philipp Hoenisch | SLP642

  Stephan discusses the evolution of Bitcoin and the challenges of self-custody with Philip Hoenisch, co-founder of Lendasat. They explore the transition from traditional finance to on-chain solutions, the importance of self-custody, and the ideological divides within the Bitcoin community. Philipp shares his insight on the intricacies of Bitcoin lending, focusing on liquidation processes, collateralization ratios, and the role of technology in managing these aspects. He explains the cost structures associated with lending, including origination fees and transaction costs, and explores the potential for loan rollovers and credit lines. The discussion also touches on the future of stablecoins amidst regulatory risks and the growth of the lending market, particularly from the perspective of lenders. Finally, the conversation highlights the impact of technological innovations like CheckTemplateVerify (CTV) on the Bitcoin ecosystem.Takeaways🔸Bitcoin is a cypherpunk tool for decentralization.🔸Self-custody is essential for true Bitcoin adoption.🔸The traditional finance system is not designed for self-sovereignty.🔸Many people are not technically equipped to self-custody Bitcoin.🔸Lendasat aims to provide a collateralized lending solution for Bitcoin.🔸Interest rates in Bitcoin lending are expected to decrease over time.🔸KYC regulations are a significant hurdle for Bitcoin lending platforms.🔸DLCs can automate and secure loan agreements on Bitcoin.🔸User experience is crucial for broader Bitcoin adoption.🔸The future of lending may involve integrating fiat and stablecoins. Liquidation occurs when collateral falls below a certain threshold.🔸Lenders can set their own collateralization ratios.🔸Technology plays a crucial role in monitoring liquidation events.🔸The app automates notifications for lenders regarding their loans.🔸Origination fees are a primary cost in Bitcoin lending.🔸Loan rollovers allow borrowers to extend their loans easily.🔸Stablecoins face regulatory risks that could impact their use.🔸Lenders may come from both retail and institutional backgrounds.🔸The future of lending may involve innovative financial products.🔸Technological advancements like CTV could enhance Bitcoin's lending capabilities.Timestamps:(00:00) - Intro(00:52) - Pivoting from 10101 Finance to Lendasat(03:15) - Will the future of Bitcoin be On-chain or TradFi?; The importance of self-custody in Bitcoin(08:29) - Is there an ideological echo chamber hindering Bitcoin’s adoption?(11:49) - The case for Lendasat (14:26) - Managing interest rates and loan terms in Bitcoin lending(19:43) - Sponsors(22:00) - What are the KYC & AML related hurdles in Bitcoin lending? (23:22) - What is Lendasat ?(30:53) - How does DLC work in Bitcoin lending with Lendasat? (33:47) - Understanding liquidation criteria and collateralization terms with Lendasat(35:34) - How is technology overseeing liquidation processes?(39:04) - Sponsors(43:16) - Cost structures, loan rollovers and credit lines(48:57) - The future of stablecoins(54:29) - Lender’s perspective and market growth potential (56:45) - What will be the impact of CTV on Bitcoin lending markets? (59:53) - Closing thoughtsLinks: https://x.com/bonomat https://x.com/lendasat https://lendasat.com/ Sponsors:Bold BitcoinCoinKite.com (code LIVERA)Lana by GaloyStephan Livera links:Follow me on X: @stephanliveraSubscribe to the podcastSubscribe to Substack

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  1:01:30
• The Bitcoin Strategy of Semler Scientific with Eric Semler | SLP641

  Eric Semler, chairman of Semler Scientific, shares his journey from being an investor in technology and media to adopting a Bitcoin treasury strategy for his company. He discusses the origins of Semler Scientific, the challenges faced in the healthcare sector, and how he became convinced of Bitcoin's potential as a store of value. Eric elaborates on the transition from personal conviction in Bitcoin to implementing a corporate strategy, navigating regulatory hurdles, and the evolution of Bitcoin treasury strategies. He also addresses the concept of zombie companies and their potential to benefit from adopting Bitcoin as part of their financial strategy. The strategic timing for deploying Bitcoin in business operations, the high hurdle rate associated with Bitcoin investments, and the evolving landscape of Bitcoin treasury companies are few of the other aspects discussed in depth. Takeaways🔸Semler Scientific was founded 20 years ago by Eric's father.🔸The company focuses on medical devices, particularly for screening peripheral artery disease.🔸Eric's journey with Bitcoin began in 2013 but solidified in 2017.🔸He was influenced by notable figures like Tom Lee and Michael Saylor.🔸The company adopted a Bitcoin treasury strategy in May 2021.🔸They faced regulatory challenges with the SEC during the adoption process.🔸The board was supportive of the Bitcoin strategy despite initial skepticism.🔸Eric believes that many companies should adopt a Bitcoin treasury strategy.🔸Zombie companies are those with cash but lack growth and market interest.🔸Eric advocates for these companies to consider Bitcoin as a valuable asset.  Tech CEOs may 🔸personally hold Bitcoin but hesitate to adopt it for their companies.🔸Advising zombie companies to start with small Bitcoin investments can be effective.🔸Calling a company a 'zombie' can be insulting and counterproductive.🔸Companies should focus on accumulating Bitcoin rather than using it for operations.🔸The hurdle rate for Bitcoin investments is exceptionally high.🔸Market saturation could impact the success of Bitcoin treasury companies.🔸Institutional investors have strict mandates that limit direct Bitcoin purchases.🔸The current market drawdown may deter companies from investing in Bitcoin.🔸Long-term strategies are essential for navigating Bitcoin's volatility.🔸The potential for Bitcoin to exceed gold's value presents significant opportunities.Timestamps:(00:00) - Intro(01:54) - The story of Semler Scientific (06:09) - How did Eric stumble down the Bitcoin rabbit hole?(09:10) - Semler Scientific adopting the Bitcoin Treasury Strategy(16:34) - Convincing the stakeholders and the board of Semler Scientific to adopt BTC (18:32) - Exploring financial engineering to buy more Bitcoin(20:42) - Sponsors(22:57) - Semler Scientific’s value as a MedTech & Bitcoin Treasury company(26:38) - How is the debt structured to acquire more Bitcoin?(29:02) - What is the future of Bitcoin Treasury Companies?(31:40) - What is a zombie company?; The case for Bitcoin in zombie companies(36:00) - The role of Tech CEOs in Bitcoin adoption(37:29) - Advising zombie companies on Bitcoin(39:27) - Sponsors(40:39) - Are zombie companies sensitive to criticism?(43:58) - When should a company deploy Bitcoin in its business strategies?  (46:45) - Should Bitcoin be a hurdle rate for investments?(51:18) - Bitcoin treasury companies managing market saturation(54:39) - Understanding the investor landscape for Bitcoin Treasuries(59:33) - How does Semler navigate bear cycles? (1:01:53) - Closing thoughtsLinks: https://x.com/SemlerErichttps://www.semlerscientific.com/ https://x.com/SemlerEric/status/1892924967940993250 Sponsors:Bold BitcoinCoinKite.com (code LIVERA)Lana by GaloyStephan Livera links:Follow me on X: @stephanliveraSubscribe to the podcastSubscribe to Substack

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  1:03:13
• How Lightning Builders Can Improve Bitcoin Wallets with Nick Slaney | SLP640

  In this episode, Stephan speaks with Nick Slaney about the current state and future of the Lightning Network. They discuss the misconceptions surrounding Lightning adoption, the legal challenges faced by developers, and the opportunities for Lightning Service Providers (LSPs). Nick shares insights on hosted channels, liquidity management, and the user experience of Lightning, emphasizing the importance of understanding costs associated with using the network. The conversation highlights the potential for growth and innovation in the Lightning ecosystem as it continues to evolve. In this conversation, Stephan and Nick Slaney delve into the intricacies of the Lightning Network, Bitcoin fees, and the role of stablecoins in the crypto ecosystem. They discuss the real-world user experience with Bitcoin and Lightning, emphasizing the importance of understanding user needs and the misconceptions prevalent in online discussions. The conversation also touches on the implications of Taproot assets for the Lightning Network and the future of Bitcoin development, highlighting the need for better user experiences and broader adoption.Takeaways🔸Lightning has seen significant growth in volume over the past year.🔸Misunderstandings about Lightning's functionality can lead to misconceptions.🔸Legal challenges have created a chilling effect on Lightning adoption in the US.🔸LSPs are a viable business model for facilitating Lightning transactions.🔸Hosted channels can help onboard casual users to Lightning.🔸User experience is crucial for the adoption of self-custodial wallets.🔸Costs associated with using Lightning can vary based on user behavior.🔸The Lightning Network is not free; users must consider on-chain fees.🔸There is a need for better tools to facilitate movement between Lightning and on-chain Bitcoin.🔸The future of Lightning looks promising with ongoing developments and innovations. 🔸Real-world users are often willing to pay higher fees for Bitcoin transactions.🔸The fee structure for Lightning transactions can be misunderstood online.🔸Stablecoins serve a purpose in regions where users cannot access dollars.🔸Self-custody offers assurance and control over Bitcoin holdings.🔸The Lightning Network needs to focus on user experience to drive adoption.🔸There is a disconnect between online Bitcoin discussions and real-world user experiences.🔸Taproot assets could change the dynamics of stablecoins on the Lightning Network.🔸The future of Bitcoin may involve integrating fiat systems with Lightning payments.🔸Building trust and brand recognition is crucial for crypto applications.🔸The Bitcoin community should prioritize real-world applications and user needs.Timestamps:(00:00) - Intro(01:14) - How has the Lightning network progressed with time? (04:06) - What are the tradeoffs with Lightning?(07:15) - What are the current legal challenges and their impact on Lightning?(10:16) - Opportunities for Lightning Service Providers (LSPs)(13:11) - How does an LSP identify a profitable channel?; What is a Hosted channel? (16:13) - The challenge of UX and cost considerations in Lightning(18:05) - Sponsors(19:55) - “Graduated wallet approach” (22:12) - What is the actual number of people that can use Lightning? (27:00) - What are the individual costs of using self-custodial Lightning? (33:36) - Misconceptions about Lightning(35:26) - Sponsors(37:43) - Real-world user perspectives on Bitcoin and Lightning(41:16) - What is the role of Stablecoins in the payment ecosystem?(50:44) - Taproot Assets and their impact on Lightning Network(58:09) - The future of Bitcoin & Lightning DevelopmentLinks: https://sats.build/self-custody-lightning-2025/https://x.com/nick_slaney/status/1889679185313960320 Sponsors:Bold BitcoinCoinKite.com (code LIVERA)Lana by GaloyStephan Livera links:Follow me on X: @stephanliveraSubscribe to the podcastSubscribe to Substack

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  1:00:43

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