The Daily Coffee Pro Podcast by MAP IT FORWARD

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This episode is brought to you by CoffeeListings.com, by Map It Forward - the marketplace where the coffee world does business.
Find or list coffee, equipment, services, jobs, businesses, wanted ads, and other opportunities across the global coffee industry. www.coffeelistings.com
Episode Description
This is part 4 of a new 5-part series on The Daily Coffee Pro Podcast by Map It Forward, hosted by Lee Safar. Our guest on the podcast for this series is Bram de Hoog, co-owner of Paso Paso Coffee, a farmer-owned coffee roastery based in Hanover, Germany.
The theme of this series is alternative trade models and farmer engagement in the consuming market.
What is the real difference between operating a wholesale coffee roastery and a retail coffee roastery, and why does understanding that distinction matter so much for profitability?
In this episode, Lee and Bram examine the financial and operational differences between these two business models, including how they approach production, staffing, pricing, cash flow, and business growth.
Bram explains that wholesale roasteries primarily supply other businesses, particularly coffee shops, hotels, and restaurants. Retail-focused roasteries, by contrast, sell directly to consumers through their own cafés, retail locations, or e-commerce operations.
While both models involve roasting and selling coffee, their cost structures and commercial pressures can be very different.
Wholesale roasteries are particularly exposed to fluctuations in green coffee prices and the financing costs associated with holding inventory. Retail operations, especially cafés, face greater pressure from staffing costs, foot traffic, and day-to-day operational demands.
The conversation also explores the limitations of small in-store roasting operations. Although attractive as a business concept, combining a small roaster with a café can create production inefficiencies and limit growth without changes to equipment, staffing, and the operating model.
Lee and Bram then discuss one of the most important differences between wholesale and retail pricing: in wholesale, both the roastery and its business customers must earn a viable margin.
Bram explains why a 20% wholesale retail margin may be insufficient for specialty coffee shops, and why discounts in the range of 30% to 50% are more commercially realistic in many circumstances.
They also examine payment terms and the cash-flow risks associated with extending credit to wholesale customers, compared with receiving immediate payment from consumers.
The second half of the episode focuses on scaling.
Paso Paso currently operates with approximately 70% of its sales through wholesale and 30% through e-commerce and direct sales. Bram explains why this balance supports production efficiency while allowing the company to participate in the higher-margin direct-to-consumer market.
He introduces the concept of peak profitability: the point at which a business is making the most effective use of its existing capacity before further growth requires significant investment.
For Paso Paso, Bram estimates that its current operation could produce approximately 6,000 kilograms of roasted coffee per month without fundamentally changing its infrastructure.
Beyond that point, expansion would likely require larger premises, additional equipment, more employees, and new investment, temporarily reducing profitability before the next phase of growth.
The conversation concludes by exploring why some wholesale roasteries eventually move into retail to capture more value, and why that decision requires an entirely different commercial strategy rather than simply opening a café or launching an online store.
This episode offers an important perspective for anyone operating, developing, or investing in a coffee roasting business: understanding which business model you're building is fundamental to making informed decisions about pricing, profitability, and growth.
Connect with Bram de Hoog and Paso Paso Coffee:
Paso Paso Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paso_paso_coffee/
Bram Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bram_dehoog/
Bram LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bramdehoog/
If you found this episode valuable, make sure you’re subscribed to the podcast and follow along for the rest of this 5-part series.
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About Map It Forward
The Daily Coffee Pro is produced by Map It Forward, supporting coffee professionals globally across the supply chain.
Website: https://mapitforward.coffee
Mailing list: https://mapitforward.coffee/mailinglist
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mapitforward
‘The Coffee Report’: https://www.patreon.com/mapitforward
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mapitforward.coffee/
CoffeeListing: https://www.CoffeeListings.com
Contact: support@mapitforward.org

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Episode Description
This is part 3 of a new 5-part series on The Daily Coffee Pro Podcast by Map It Forward, hosted by Lee Safar. Our guest on the podcast for this series is Bram de Hoog, co-owner of Paso Paso Coffee, a farmer-owned coffee roastery based in Hanover, Germany.
The theme of this series is alternative trade models and farmer engagement in the consuming market.
How do you build a resilient coffee business when the decisions that create long-term stability also require taking significant financial and operational risks?
In this episode, Lee and Bram explore the relationship between risk and resilience, and how Paso Paso has approached building a business that can withstand volatility across the coffee supply chain.
Bram explains why taking risks has been fundamental to establishing Paso Paso. From purchasing roasting equipment and green coffee inventory to investing in branding and customer relationships, the business has deliberately committed capital to assets and activities that support its long-term independence.
For the five coffee farming families who collectively own most of Paso Paso, those risks began with investing in a company on the other side of the world.
But Bram argues that resilience depends on more than financial investment. The relationships connecting producers, the roastery, and wholesale customers are even more important.
Paso Paso works to create predictable supply for coffee shops through consistent quality, pricing, service, and long-term relationships with the same farming families. Approximately 70% of its business is wholesale, making customer retention and commercial reliability central to its operating model.
The conversation also examines what resilience looks like inside the roastery itself.
Bram approaches coffee roasting as food manufacturing, prioritising operational efficiency, backup equipment, reliable packaging supplies, and insurance rather than relying solely on the romanticised image of artisanal roasting.
Lee and Bram then discuss how Paso Paso has navigated rising green coffee prices, currency fluctuations, and broader market volatility.
Bram explains that the company is working towards paying $5 FOB for its green coffee while simultaneously reducing production overheads as volumes grow. With the roastery currently operating at approximately 30% capacity, improving efficiency is helping the business absorb higher purchasing costs.
Finally, they examine the customer side of resilience.
Bram argues that a coffee business cannot build lasting commercial relationships unless its customers are also able to operate profitably. For Paso Paso, that means making sure wholesale coffee shops can earn sustainable margins on the coffee they purchase, alongside receiving dependable service and consistent quality.
This episode offers a practical perspective on building resilient coffee businesses by aligning financial decisions, operational capabilities, supplier relationships, and customer profitability.
Connect with Bram de Hoog and Paso Paso Coffee:
Paso Paso Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paso_paso_coffee/
Bram Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bram_dehoog/
Bram LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bramdehoog/
If you found this episode valuable, make sure you’re subscribed to the podcast and follow along for the rest of this 5-part series.
***************************************
About Map It Forward
The Daily Coffee Pro is produced by Map It Forward, supporting coffee professionals globally across the supply chain.
Website: https://mapitforward.coffee
Mailing list: https://mapitforward.coffee/mailinglist
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mapitforward
‘The Coffee Report’: https://www.patreon.com/mapitforward
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mapitforward.coffee/
CoffeeListing: https://www.CoffeeListings.com
Contact: support@mapitforward.org

Advertising Sponsor
This episode is brought to you by CoffeeListings.com, by Map It Forward - the marketplace where the coffee world does business.
Find or list coffee, equipment, services, jobs, businesses, wanted ads, and other opportunities across the global coffee industry. www.coffeelistings.com
Episode Description
This is part 2 of a new 5-part series on The Daily Coffee Pro Podcast by Map It Forward, hosted by Lee Safar. Our guest on the podcast for this series is Bram de Hoog, co-owner of Paso Paso Coffee, a farmer-owned coffee roastery based in Hanover, Germany.
The theme of this series is alternative trade models and farmer engagement in the consuming market.
In this episode, Lee and Bram explore what it actually takes to manage direct relationships with coffee producers and import coffee into the consuming market.
Paso Paso is owned by Bram and five coffee farming families based across Ethiopia, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, and El Salvador. Unlike conventional direct trade arrangements, the farmers are both suppliers and shareholders in the German roasting business.
Bram explains how they established this ownership structure, the legal processes involved, and why their operating agreements require transactions to deliver economic benefits to both the farms and the roastery.
The intention isn't to pay unsustainably inflated prices for green coffee. Instead, Paso Paso's producers aim to benefit twice: first by selling coffee profitably to the roastery, and again through the growth and potential profits of the business they collectively own.
A particularly important part of the conversation focuses on communication between origin and the consuming market.
Bram explains why direct feedback about how coffees perform commercially is essential for building lasting relationships. Rather than simply replacing a coffee or switching suppliers when something doesn't sell, Paso Paso works with its producer partners to understand the problem and identify alternatives.
But direct relationships also create financial and operational challenges.
Bram shares the reality of managing excess green coffee inventory, including Paso Paso's approach to selling surplus stock through its 'After Party' offering.
He also explains why financing and storage have historically represented approximately 20% of Paso Paso's green coffee costs, and how importing their first container independently from Costa Rica allowed them to reduce costs by approximately 16%.
The discussion explores how Paso Paso is beginning to use internally generated funds and shareholder loans to finance coffee purchases, potentially reducing its dependence on external financing.
This is a practical examination of direct coffee trade, from legal ownership and producer feedback to inventory management, capital requirements, and international logistics.
It also raises an important question for the coffee industry: how much of the difficulty associated with direct importing comes from the physical movement of coffee, and how much comes from financing the transaction?
Connect with Bram de Hoog and Paso Paso Coffee:
Paso Paso Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paso_paso_coffee/
Bram Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bram_dehoog/
Bram LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bramdehoog/
If you found this episode valuable, make sure you’re subscribed to the podcast and follow along for the rest of this 5-part series.
***************************************
About Map It Forward
The Daily Coffee Pro is produced by Map It Forward, supporting coffee professionals globally across the supply chain.
Website: https://mapitforward.coffee
Mailing list: https://mapitforward.coffee/mailinglist
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mapitforward
‘The Coffee Report’: https://www.patreon.com/mapitforward
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mapitforward.coffee/
CoffeeListing: https://www.CoffeeListings.com
Contact: support@mapitforward.org

Advertising Sponsor
This episode is brought to you by Arcadia Green Coffee, Colombian coffee exporters taking fresh green coffee from Colombia to the world, farm to roastery, direct. New office now open in the UK.
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/arcadiagreencoffee/
WhatsApp: https://wa.me/353877871523
Episode Description
This is part 1 of a new 5-part series on The Daily Coffee Pro Podcast by Map It Forward, hosted by Lee Safar. Our guest on the podcast for this series is Bram de Hoog, co-owner of Paso Paso Coffee, a farmer-owned coffee roastery based in Hanover, Germany.
Three years after Bram first appeared on the podcast to introduce Paso Paso's alternative business model, he returns to explain how the business has developed, what they've learned, and whether their approach to coffee trading and roasting is proving commercially viable.
Paso Paso operates differently from most coffee roasteries. Five coffee farming families collectively hold 75% ownership of the company, while Bram holds the remaining 25%. The roastery exclusively purchases coffee from those farming families, creating a business structure in which producers participate in the consuming market and share in the value created through roasting and selling their coffee.
In this first episode, Lee and Bram explore what happens when a former green coffee trader applies the principles of international coffee trading to operating a roastery.
Bram explains a fundamental difference between traders and roasters: traders typically seek to secure buyers before committing to coffee purchases, while many roasters purchase inventory before knowing exactly how they will sell it. At Paso Paso, that distinction has shaped a business built around long-term relationships, detailed demand forecasting, and planning coffee purchases 12 to 18 months in advance.
The conversation also explores how Paso Paso has grown to supply approximately 40 coffee shops regularly, why securing long-term customers is different from securing individual orders, and how hundreds of small wholesale transactions contribute to a more predictable business.
Lee and Bram also revisit one of Paso Paso's earliest and most significant investments: branding. Bram explains why the investment has paid off, how packaging influences purchasing behaviour, and why Paso Paso deliberately makes the producer's name the most prominent element on its coffee bags.
Rather than continuously introducing new producers and coffees, Paso Paso aims to help customers develop lasting recognition of the farming families behind its products.
This episode examines how ownership, procurement, branding, and customer relationships can work together to create a different kind of coffee business, and what other roasters and traders can learn from the model.
Connect with Bram de Hoog and Paso Paso Coffee:
Paso Paso Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paso_paso_coffee/
Bram Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bram_dehoog/
Bram LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bramdehoog/
If you found this episode valuable, make sure you’re subscribed to the podcast and follow along for the rest of this 5-part series.
***************************************
About Map It Forward
The Daily Coffee Pro is produced by Map It Forward, supporting coffee professionals globally across the supply chain.
Website: https://mapitforward.coffee
Mailing list: https://mapitforward.coffee/mailinglist
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mapitforward
‘The Coffee Report’: https://www.patreon.com/mapitforward
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mapitforward.coffee/
CoffeeListing: https://www.CoffeeListings.com
Contact: support@mapitforward.org

Advertising Sponsor
This episode is brought to you by CoffeeListings.com, by Map It Forward - the marketplace where the coffee world does business.
Find or list coffee, equipment, services, jobs, businesses, wanted ads, and other opportunities across the global coffee industry. www.coffeelistings.com
Episode Description
**CONTENT WARNING:** This episode contains discussions of sexual assault, workplace violence, psychological abuse, gender discrimination, intimidation, and harassment. Some of the experiences and situations referenced may be distressing for listeners. Please use your discretion when listening.
This is part 1 of a new 5-part series on The Daily Coffee Pro Podcast by Map It Forward, hosted by Lee Safar. Our guest on the podcast for this series is returning guest Isabela Raposeiras, founder of Coffee Lab in Brazil.
The theme of this series is "Being 'Not a Man' in Coffee," and we're opening a conversation about what women experience in the coffee industry, the behaviours that have been normalised, and why so many women feel unable to speak openly about what's happened to them.
In this first episode, Lee and Isabela share deeply personal and confronting accounts of sexual assault, harassment, intimidation, and abuse of power within the coffee industry.
Lee recounts two experiences shared with her by women in the industry, including a young employee who was allegedly assaulted by her employer during a business trip and another woman who described repeated sexual assaults by her boss while feeling financially trapped in her employment.
Isabela shares her own experience of being sexually assaulted by a senior executive at a coffee company in Brazil, and the devastating discovery that, according to information subsequently shared with her, other senior men at the company had discussed and anticipated the encounter.
Together, they explore the culture that allows these experiences to go unchallenged, the fear of professional retaliation, the silence of bystanders, and the difficulty women face in being recognised as professionals rather than being judged or objectified because of their gender.
This is not a conversation about hating men. It's a conversation about understanding what women experience in coffee and challenging an industry that too often allows unacceptable behaviour to continue without accountability.
The question that runs through this series is simple: What can we do?
We encourage everyone in the coffee industry, particularly men, to listen to all five episodes and share this conversation with their colleagues.
Connect with Isabela Raposeiras and Coffee Lab:
Coffee Lab: https://www.instagram.com/coffeelab_br/
Isabela Raposeiras: https://www.instagram.com/isabela.raposeiras/
If you found this episode valuable, make sure you’re subscribed to the podcast and follow along for the rest of this 5-part series.
***************************************
About Map It Forward
The Daily Coffee Pro is produced by Map It Forward, supporting coffee professionals globally across the supply chain.
Website: https://mapitforward.coffee
Mailing list: https://mapitforward.coffee/mailinglist
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mapitforward
‘The Coffee Report’: https://www.patreon.com/mapitforward
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mapitforward.coffee/
CoffeeListing: https://www.CoffeeListings.com
Contact: support@mapitforward.org