Unchained

North Korea takes $387 million from Bitget and moves it through THORChain while NEAR's Shield freezes what it can, a Consensys validator hack tests whether staking was ever the risk-free rate, a quant named Benny shows Kalshi's perps volume was cooked, and Apollo warns that AI agents are coming for your checking account.

Welcome to The Chopping Block, where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This week the three of them record from a self-serve podcast studio in Amsterdam.

Bitget loses 387 million dollars to North Korea's Lazarus Group and pays every claim from its user protection fund, but the stolen funds raise a harder question: THORChain lets them through while NEAR's Shield freezes them, so which one is actually decentralized? (Dragonfly is an investor in Bitget and NEAR.) Then a Consensys validator compromise tests staking as the risk-free rate, Robert prices insurance on US Treasuries at 35 basis points, a quant named Benny exposes Kalshi's perps volume, and the crew takes apart Apollo's warning about agentic bank runs, from Robert's one basis point checking account to Tarun's agent filing his insurance claims.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights

🔹 Bitget loses about 387 million dollars to North Korea's Lazarus Group, and its 460 million dollar user protection fund covers every claim, so there is no contagion.

🔹 The stolen funds run through THORChain while NEAR's Shield freezes around 500K and refuses to route more than 100 million, which reopens the question of what decentralization actually requires.

🔹 Robert wants only the two extremes, fully neutral infrastructure or deliberate censorship, and nothing in the middle. Haseeb counters that everything between a centralized exchange and Uniswap already is the middle.

🔹 Haseeb argues property rights mean more than valid state transitions, and that anomaly detection can enforce them in a way that is still neutral and programmatic.

🔹 Tarun explains why cross-chain intents, with their solvers and RFQs, are where all the fights happen.

🔹 A Consensys validator compromise forces a mass exit, and Robert says staking was never the risk-free rate, only the best possible one. He looks up US CDS at 35 basis points and puts Ethereum validation risk at about five.

🔹 Would Ethereum roll back an unfair slashing? Haseeb says it would to protect stakers. Robert says only if transactions were corrupted.

🔹 A quant named Benny exposes Kalshi's perps volume, 3 million of open interest against hundreds of millions in daily volume, and Kalshi ends its liquidity incentives as the CFTC reportedly investigates.

🔹 Robert on why market maker rebates are normal, and how paying makers in equity for volume made Kalshi's go so wrong.

🔹 On Apollo's agentic bank runs: Robert earns one basis point on his checking account, Tarun's agent finds 1,700 dollars in health insurance overcharges, and the panel argues the whole economy is about to look like DeFi.

Hosts

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures

⭐️Robert Leshner, Founder & CEO of Superstate

Disclosures

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

01:42 Bitget loses $387M to North Korea

07:08 Should chains freeze hacked funds?

15:35 Chains as laboratories of democracy

21:44 The hidden premium on janky chains

27:13 Consensys compromised: is staking still risk-free?

30:53 Pricing and hedging validator risk

40:24 Kalshi's perps volume

44:17 How Kalshi's rebates went awry

53:07 Apollo's agentic bank runs

56:04 A banking system built on consumer laziness

1:02:46 SVB-style runs at agent speed

1:02:46 SVB-style runs at agent speed

1:05:01 Homo economicus is back
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Taylor Monahan ties the Bitget hack to North Korea and the crew asks why THORChain still avoids the scrutiny Tornado Cash got.

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⁠Our listener survey⁠ takes five minutes, it’s anonymous, and I read the write-in answers myself. Everyone who takes it can enter a drawing for a free year of Unchained Premium or Bits + Bips Premium. Open through Sunday, October 18.

— Laura

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Attackers took $388 million from Bitget without ever getting its private keys. Opsek founder Pablo Sabbatella explains that the way in was a zero-day in a third-party security product the exchange relied on.

Sabbatella, who now sits on Arbitrum's Security Council, joins Kain Warwick, Taylor Monahan, and Austin Griffith to trace the hack. Monahan attributes it to North Korea's TraderTraitor group and flags how fast the funds left Arbitrum, while the hosts ask why THORChain, which has halted its chain and reallocated balances before, still handles stolen funds.

They also cover NEAR's SHIELD anomaly detection, reports of rogue AI agents hacking outside systems, whether retail should get the upside of a $2 trillion Anthropic IPO, and Vitalik Buterin's 2030 roadmap for Ethereum.

Warwick's case: the harder the problem, the more superintelligence helps, and Ethereum is one of the hardest problems there is.

Hosts:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Kain Warwick⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Host of Uneasy Money and Founder of Infinex and Synthetix

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Taylor Monahan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Co-host of Uneasy Money and Security Expert

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Austin Griffith⁠⁠ - Co-host of Uneasy Money and Builder Enablement at Ethereum Foundation

Guest:

Pablo Sabbatella - Founder at Opsek

Timestamps

🚨 02:32 How Bitget got hit for $388M and covered the losses

🛡️ 08:24 Why Pablo says a third-party security product was the way into Bitget

🕵️ 11:22 Taylor ties the hack to North Korea and highlights their rush to exit Arbitrum

❄️ 13:34 Pablo on why security councils restart the freeze debate every time

⛓️ 14:17 Why Kain says THORChain can't claim it's like Bitcoin and Ethereum

🧭 30:24 How NEAR's Shield blocks funds using behavioral anomaly detection

📣 34:51 1inch: See how 1inch Aqua lets LPs back multiple positions with one token balance at http://unchainedcrypto.com/go/1inch-yt

🤖 36:16 Rogue AI agents are hacking outside systems as the labs eye IPOs

🔓 39:11 Why Pablo thinks the AI labs want to regulate open-source models

📈 48:55 Kain's case for letting retail take the risk on a $2T Anthropic IPO

🧱 01:05:47 Why Kain calls Vitalik's 2030 roadmap the most bullish Ethereum read in years

🏪 01:19:18 Pablo asks whether Ethereum's real challenge is commercial, not technical
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Hunter Biden walks through the $LAPTOP launch, when thin liquidity sent the token to a $317 billion market cap in a minute, and why he says it isn't a scam.

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Quick favor: We're deciding what Unchained does next; new shows, stream times, what's worth paying for.⁠⁠⁠ Our listener survey⁠⁠⁠ takes five minutes, it's anonymous, and I read the write-in answers myself. Everyone who takes it can enter a drawing for a free year of Unchained Premium or Bits + Bips Premium. Open through Sunday, October 18.

— Laura

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In June, Hunter Biden replied to a small account on X that "fiat is a sham" and the banking class is corrupt. His next move was $LAPTOP, a memecoin he says has the opposite tokenomics of the $TRUMP token.

Hunter joins Laura Shin to trace his path into crypto, from the UN World Food Programme’s digital wallets for refugees (originally covered on Unchained in 2018) to The Internet of Money. He walks through $LAPTOP's first minutes, when a market maker seeded about $5,000 of liquidity and the token briefly showed a $317 billion market cap, and answers critics who call it a scam.

He also lays out the token's prediction market burn mechanism, argues the Clarity Act died because the administration wouldn't bend on ethics rules covering the Trump family, and challenges Elizabeth Warren for siding with the banks.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guest:

⁠⁠⁠⁠Hunter Biden - Artist, Author, and Recovery Advocate

Timestamps

🎨 01:26 How a blockchain-related initiative at the UN World Food Programme led Hunter to crypto

🏛️ 07:34 Why Hunter says most Democrats only know crypto through Trump's 'grift'

💧 12:47 1inch Aqua: See how LPs back multiple positions with one balance at http://unchainedcrypto.com/go/1inch-yt

💻 13:46 Why Hunter launched $LAPTOP and what he says went wrong at its debut

🔍 21:14 Hunter answers critics who call $LAPTOP the scam he accuses Trump of

🎲 23:52 How $LAPTOP's built-in prediction market burns tokens or funds charity

⚖️ 33:35 Hunter's case against World Liberty Financial and the Trump family business

🗳️ 46:47 Can Democrats revive the Clarity Act if they take back Congress?

🏦 50:01 Why Hunter can't understand Elizabeth Warren siding with the banks
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In their final episode on Unchained, Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le share the advice they give women entering crypto. Plus, Vy on the Senate meeting after FTX.

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Quick favor: We're deciding what Unchained does next; new shows, stream times, what's worth paying for.⁠⁠⁠ Our listener survey⁠⁠⁠ takes five minutes, it's anonymous, and I read the write-in answers myself. Everyone who takes it can enter a drawing for a free year of Unchained Premium or Bits + Bips Premium. Open through Sunday, October 18.

— Laura

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After more than a year of amplifying women's voices in crypto, DEX in the City is signing off from Unchained, and its hosts skip the week's news to share the advice they give people trying to break into the industry.

Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le debate whether lawyers need to be on X, why "getting into crypto" now means learning perps, tokens, and prediction markets at once, and why Katherine believes women in male-dominated rooms have to be the adult in the room.

Vy recounts breaking down in a Senate office days after FTX collapsed, a story she says she had barely told anyone, and what it taught her about separating the technology from the people who abuse it. Jessi recalls begging the FBI around 2016 to take cases involving terrorists using Bitcoin, a measure of how far the industry has traveled since institutions laughed it off.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Chainlink

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vy Le⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda

Timestamps

🎙️ 01:48 Why the hosts are skipping the news for their final episode on Unchained

🧭 03:25 Jessi's case against 'getting into crypto,' and the debate over X

⚖️ 12:15 Why KK tells women in crypto they have to be the adult in the room

🪞 16:45 Jessi on 'don't lose yourself,' and Vy on why the loudest critics aren't the majority

💧 23:40 1inch Aqua: Back multiple liquidity positions with the same token balance at http://unchainedcrypto.com/go/1inch-yt

🌊 24:54 How the hosts keep marching through crypto's roughest stretches

💔 29:22 Vy on why crypto can't be your whole identity, and her Senate meeting after FTX

🏰 36:13 The strangest crypto moments: Versailles, a Florida offsite, North Korea

🙌 45:10 The women and allies the hosts credit for paving the way
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Bitget lost $388 million — and days later, CEO Gracy Chen says scammers posing as a major investment team targeted her.

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Quick favor: We're deciding what Unchained does next; new shows, stream times, what's worth paying for.⁠⁠ Our listener survey⁠⁠ takes five minutes, it's anonymous, and I read the write-in answers myself. Everyone who takes it can enter a drawing for a free year of Unchained Premium or Bits + Bips Premium. Open through Sunday, October 18.

— Laura

========================================================

On September 24, attackers used a zero-day in a third-party security product to slip fraudulent withdrawal commands into Bitget's wallet system, pulling out about $388 million across chains from Ethereum and XRP to Zcash.

Bitget CEO Gracy Chen joins Laura Shin to reconstruct the attack, from test transfers that stayed under risk thresholds to her team's call to switch wallets back on mid-attack and sweep hot and warm funds into cold storage. She lays out how the exchange's protection fund covered users and why reopened withdrawals showed an early net inflow.

Then comes the industry response. Tether, Circle, and NEAR Intents froze funds, THORChain declined her request, and only $632K is frozen so far. Chen also describes scammers impersonating an investment firm to target her after the hack. Her case that "permissionless doesn't mean neutral" puts a hard question to DeFi.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guest:

⁠Gracy Chen - CEO of Bitget

Timestamps

🚨 01:50 How attackers used a third-party zero-day to fake withdrawal commands

❄️ 07:15 Why Bitget switched wallets back on mid-attack to sweep funds to cold storage

💧 14:30 1inch Aqua: See how LPs back multiple positions with the same token balance at http://unchainedcrypto.com/go/1inch-sn

⛓️ 15:37 Why the hackers were able to transact even after withdrawals were paused

🧊 19:04 How Tether, Circle, and NEAR Intents froze funds, and why recovery is harder

🕵️ 24:05 ZachXBT's shift on the Bitget hack and his earlier pump-and-dump claims

🛡️ 30:01 NEAR Intents vs. THORChain: does permissionless mean neutral?

💰 41:55 Why Bitget built its protection fund in 2022 and how it covered the loss

🎭 48:17 How scammers posed as an investment team to target Gracy after the hack

📈 01:01:32 A net ETH inflow after withdrawals reopened, and whether the IPO is still on
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