Unchained

The Supreme Court just made it easier to fire SEC and CFTC commissioners. Katherine, Jessi, and Vy on why that could reset who controls crypto policy. Plus, the UK's new rulebook.

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⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet,
it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier
that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they
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The Supreme Court just tore up a 90-year-old precedent that kept independent-agency commissioners safe from a president's whims, and almost no one in crypto is talking about what it means for the SEC and the CFTC.

Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le trace how the ruling in Trump v. Slaughter changes who actually controls financial regulation. Then they cross the Atlantic to the UK's sweeping new crypto rulebook and the European Commission's move to expand MiCA just as its first version fully takes effect.

They also dig into a Cambridge report showing fighters from one of the world's most brutal terror groups using chatbots to troubleshoot weapons and plan attacks, and ask why there's no Section 230 for crypto or AI, only a growing pile of civil lawsuits testing where liability lands.

Jessi Brooks argues crypto's decade of learning to police neutral technology might be the only playbook AI has left to borrow.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vy Le⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda

Timestamps

💙 00:28 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months of privacy-first mobile service at⁠ https://cape.co/unchained⁠

🇬🇧 01:05 Why the UK just published a crypto rulebook few even noticed

🇪🇺 13:15 Why Brussels wants to expand MiCA to cover tokenized assets and stablecoins

⚖️ 24:57 How the Supreme Court handed presidents new power over the SEC and CFTC

🏛️ 33:47 The legal reasoning behind the ruling, and why the Fed board was spared

🤖 39:37 The AI segment: a Cambridge report on Boko Haram's chatbot fueled weapons unit

⚖️ 47:58 Why crypto and AI both lack a Section 230, and who ends up getting sued

🦎 52:20 The good news: how TRM traced $15 million in crypto tied to wildlife trafficking
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Nick Almond and Proph3t on ENS's treasury fight, the BonkDAO heist, and why Proph3t would not touch Venice's VVV token.

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⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

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Nick Johnson, the founder of ENS Labs, used his own tokens to kill a vote renewing ENS DAO's Security Council, potentially clearing the way for a foundation to take over a treasury worth more than $100 million.

Nick Almond, head of governance at the Jito Foundation, and Proph3t, cofounder of MetaDAO, join Laura Shin to untangle what that move reveals about who should control a DAO's money, and whether voting was ever the right way to decide it.

They trace ENS cofounder Jeff Lau's warning that the treasury became a honeypot with zero accountability, and the collapsing voter turnout that let a 3% token stake decide the DAO's fate. Proph3t makes the case for MetaDAO's decision markets over voting entirely, while Nick argues curated delegates solve the same capture problem without giving up the vote. They also cover the $20 million BonkDAO heist, pulled off with one proposal and seven votes, and the backlash over Dragonfly's investment in Venice's VVV token.

Both guests agree DAOs are near a bottom. What comes next depends on whether anyone tries something new.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nick Almond - Head of Governance at the Jito Foundation

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Proph3t - Co-founder of MetaDAO

Timestamps

🏛️ 01:06 Laura frames the DAO reckoning: disbandments, low turnout, and the Venice fight

📉 08:26 How ENS DAO's collapsing voter turnout let a 3% stake decide its fate

⚖️ 12:55 Proph3t on why voting is a cost, and how a 51% attack captures a DAO

🏦 19:11 Nick maps DAOs' next phase: substructures picked for expertise, not popularity

🍯 24:09 Why Jeff Lau called ENS's treasury plan a honeypot with zero accountability

📣 28:50 Cape: Get 33% off six months of privacy first mobile service at https://cape.co/unchained

🏗️ 29:49 Why founders like Nick Johnson get vilified for wanting DAOs to run efficiently

🗳️ 36:35 Why Nick Johnson's silent vote against ENS's Security Council reads as an attack

💰 41:34 How BonkDAO lost $20 million to one proposal backed by just seven votes

🧩 46:22 Why Proph3t would not buy Venice's VVV token despite defending its disclosures

🔮 56:45 Proph3t on MetaDAO's origin story: pro oversight, not pro governance
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Austin Campbell draws a parallel between the AI data center backlash and the decades-long collapse of US nuclear power, then Sam Lyman of the Bitcoin Policy Institute puts real odds on whether the Clarity Act passes the Senate before August recess.

Hosts:

Austin Campbell, Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Group, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern

Ram Ahluwalia, Co-host of Bits + Bips and CEO of Lumida

Chris Perkins, Co-host of Bits + Bips and Head of Franklin Crypto

Guest:

Sam Lyman - Head of Research at the Bitcoin Policy Institute

This clip is from a longer conversation on foreign funded opposition to AI data centers and the odds of the Clarity Act passing. Full episode here: https://youtu.be/-xbSniveaQU

We go live every Monday - subscribe to catch it live.

Sponsor

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters:

🏗️ 00:00 Austin compares the AI backlash to nuclear power's collapse, citing Indian Point

🧭 01:21 Sam calls nuclear the ideal analogy: a problem we solved, then banned

🏠 02:10 Why Sam says AI's real opposition comes from inside the house

👷 02:37 The blue-collar AI boom: construction jobs, electricians, and data centers

🗳️ 04:07 Ram says political leadership, not just technology, has to show up

🎯 05:15 Sam puts Clarity's odds at 70% before August recess

⏳ 06:55 Why the August recess deadline is the real driver of momentum

📉 07:38 Sam's odds drop to 35 to 40% if Congress doesn't act in the next few weeks
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Niklas Kunkel maps where the RWA market is heading next, from Centrifuge and Apollo's CLOs to Galaxy's first tokenized credit product, then turns to a cautionary tale: some SpaceX pre-IPO token buyers never actually owned the shares they thought they had.

Host:

Steven Ehrlich - Host of Bits + Bips and Head of Research at Sharplink

Guest:

Niklas Kunkel - Founder and CEO of Chronicle Labs

This clip is from a longer conversation on crypto oracles, tokenized real-world assets, and Chronicle Labs' work verifying them. Full episode here: https://youtu.be/HW9Cu_E8DnU

We go live every week - subscribe to catch it live.

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters

🌍 00:00 Where the RWA market goes next, from the man building its plumbing: Niklas Kunkel

💰 00:44 The yield trade heating up: why CLOs like Centrifuge's JAAA and Apollo's Acred are suddenly everywhere

🌌 01:14 Galaxy's first tokenized CLO, and why it's a far bigger deal than it looks

🔍 01:56 Trust no one: how Chronicle checks Galaxy's loan book against its own custodian

🔁 03:04 The looping trick that turns a 7% CLO yield into 14% or 21%, and the risk hiding inside it

🏢 03:27 What's coming next: tokenized REITs and equities

🚀 05:28 The SpaceX pre-IPO token question Niklas keeps getting asked

📉 06:06 The catch nobody mentioned: why SpaceX token buyers never actually owned their shares
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Robinhood Chain perps now run on Lighter. Vlad Novakovski maps the revenue split, the USDG collateral risk, and the race for a US perps license.

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Thank you to our sponsor!

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Robinhood Chain went live last week, and the perpetual futures powering it are from Lighter, the onchain exchange Robinhood backed before Lighter launched its token.

Vlad Novakovski, founder and CEO of Lighter, joins Laura Shin to unpack a partnership he says has been building since he and the Robinhood founder were high school classmates. He details a 50/50 revenue split, why USDG as collateral creates friction for market makers, and how a pending CFTC license would cover Robinhood's own front-end too.

Novakovski also addresses the crowded field forming around US perps, from Kalshi and Coinbase to Kraken and dYdX, and makes the case that onchain volume keeps gaining share even as crypto native tokens lag real world asset perps. His new seat on the CFTC Innovation Advisory Committee puts him in the room as regulators decide what a DEX has to look like to operate onshore.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vlad Novakovski - Founder and CEO of Lighter

Timestamps

🤝 01:28 Why Vlad calls the Robinhood Chain deal "12 years in the making" and how the revenue is split

🤓 03:40 How Robinhood perps differs from Lighter's own app

💸 05:03 What if means if USDG is the quote asset on Robinhood's perps and USDC is the quote asset on Lighter

💬 11:04 Novakovski on Lighter's Telegram Wallet deal vs Hyperliquid's builder codes

📣 12:50 Cape: Get 33% off six months of privacy first mobile service at https://cape.co/unchained

💼 13:44 Fidelity: Explore crypto and DeFi careers at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com

📉 14:31 Why RWA perps are hitting highs while crypto native perp volume cools

⚠️ 18:00 How Lighter prices liquidation risk when tokenized stocks are collateral

🏛️ 21:14 Novakovski on the regulatory pathway DEXs need to move onshore
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