Unchained

Rebecca from Jito Labs joins Haseeb, Tom, and Tarun for a regulation deep-dive covering the CLARITY Act's stablecoin yield compromise and presidential ethics sticking points, CME and ICE's lobbying war against Hyperliquid's RWA perps, the prediction market legal battle heading to the Supreme Court, and whether the SEC's tokenized securities innovation exemption will actually matter.

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This week, joining us is Rebecca Rettig, Chief Legal Officer at Jito Labs, who's here to help the crew make sense of the absolute regulatory tornado tearing through the industry.

First up: the CLARITY Act. It just got out of Senate Banking Committee, but the road to passage is anything but smooth. The stablecoin yield fight with banks ended in a "do stuff yield" compromise, but presidential ethics provisions remain the last polarizing hurdle. Rebecca breaks down what actually changes for token founders if it passes — spoiler: not much immediately, since rulemaking alone could take years.

Then: CME and ICE have declared war on Hyperliquid, lobbying the Hill to force CFTC registration on the decentralized perps giant. The crew debates who actually wins US regulated perps, whether Hyperliquid's pre-IPO markets represent a genuine threat to investment banking, and Rebecca introduces "on-chain finance" — a distinction the panel immediately roasts her for.

Finally: prediction markets are in a legal bloodbath across state courts with a Supreme Court showdown likely by 2027, and the SEC's tokenized securities innovation exemption has Twitter buzzing but Rebecca skeptical. Let's get into it.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights

🔹 CLARITY Act Passes Senate Banking – Landmark crypto bill advances with bipartisan support, but presidential ethics provisions remain the final sticking point before a full Senate floor vote.

🔹 Stablecoin Yield Compromise – Banks screamed bloody murder, but the "do stuff yield" deal means transaction-based rewards are in and bank deposit lookalikes are out.

🔹 CME & ICE vs Hyperliquid – Traditional exchanges lobby Congress to force CFTC registration, KYC/AML, and trade surveillance on the decentralized perps giant.

🔹 Hyperliquid Prices Cerebras Better Than Bankers – Pre-IPO market nails the opening price while investment banks undershoot by over 100%, raising questions about the future of book building.

🔹 Rebecca Rettig Returns – Jito Labs CLO breaks down what CLARITY actually means for token founders (spoiler: not much changes immediately — rulemaking takes years).

🔹 Prediction Markets Head to SCOTUS – Legal bloodbath across state courts likely culminates in a Supreme Court showdown by 2027 over CFTC vs state gaming jurisdiction.

🔹 The Super Bowl Coin Toss Traded at 58/42 – Tarun surfaces the most absurd prediction market of the year, and the CFTC chair basically says it shouldn't exist.

🔹 Who Wins US Regulated Perps? – Haseeb bets on Coinbase and Robinhood, Tarun argues there's an opening for a dark horse, and Rebecca flags HIP 4's unified margin as a game-changer.

🔹 SEC Innovation Exemption Buzz – Twitter is hyped about tokenized securities guidance, but Rebecca is skeptical it drops before CLARITY is resolved.

🔹 OnFi Is Not Going to Happen – Rebecca tries to coin "on-chain finance" as distinct from DeFi. The panel roasts her. Mean Girls memes are inevitable.

Hosts

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures

⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly 

Guest⭐️ Rebecca Rettig, Jurisprudential Genius at Jito Labs

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

02:10 The CLARITY Act: Banks vs Crypto

05:21 The "Do Stuff Yield" Compromise

07:18 The Compromise: Transaction-Based Rewards

10:22 Presidential Ethics: The Last Sticking Point

12:26 What Actually Changes If CLARITY Passes?

16:01 Token Founders: What Do You Have to Do?

18:41 Developer Protection & DeFi Activity

20:15 CME & ICE Lobbying Against Hyperliquid

26:05 On-Chain Finance vs DeFi

29:57 Who Wins US Regulated Perps?

34:39 ETF Options vs Crypto Perps

40:24 What Hyperliquid Means for Investment Banking

44:50 Retail IPO Participation & Dynamic Share Counts

49:25 Prediction Markets: Kalshi & Polymarket vs the States

51:40 Supreme Court Showdown: CFTC vs State Gaming Laws

58:30 Economic Impact Test 

01:01:47 Tokenized Securities & the SEC Innovation Exemption

01:06:41 Do Issuers Actually Care About Tokenization?

Disclosures
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USDC became Hyperliquid's stablecoin infrastructure, and the 30-year broke 5% for the first time since 2008. Austin, Ram, Chris, and Gordon Liao of Circle work through who wins.

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⁠Coinbase One⁠: Get 20% off the first year of your Coinbase One annual plan at ⁠coinbase.com/unchained⁠.

Heads up!

If you haven’t yet, be sure to subscribe to Bits + Bips, since the show will migrate there in a few weeks. Follow us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Unchained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and wherever you get your podcasts.

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Coinbase and Circle have moved into Hyperliquid, installing USDC as its aligned quote asset and taking over treasury and technical deployment. For Gordon Liao, Circle's Chief Economist and Head of Research, that is a liquidity supernova. For Chris Perkins, it is the moment every TVL-trapping platform was always going to arrive at. 

Meanwhile, the CLARITY Act has cleared the Senate Banking Committee on a bipartisan vote, but the ethics question — whether Democrats will vote for a bill that leaves Trump's family holdings untouched — remains unresolved. 

And as Kevin Warsh is confirmed as Fed chair, the 30-year yield breaks 5% for the first time since 2008.

Hosts:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Austin Campbell (@austincampbell) — Founder, Zero Knowledge Consulting; Adjunct Professor, NYU Stern


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ram Ahluwalia⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Co-Host, CEO of Lumida


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Chris Perkins⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Co-Host, CEO of 250 Digital Asset Management

Guest:


Gordon Liao | Master of Coin, Circle

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CME and ICE want regulators to rein in Hyperliquid, which delivers 24/7 derivatives markets that incumbents can't match. Can it be brought onshore?

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Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠Coinbase One⁠⁠⁠: Get 20% off the first year of your Coinbase One annual plan at ⁠⁠⁠coinbase.com/unchained⁠⁠⁠.

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CME Group and Intercontinental Exchange have asked the CFTC to regulate Hyperliquid, the offshore perpetuals exchange that has rapidly become one of the largest derivatives venues in the world. The incumbents argue that price discovery is migrating to unregulated territory. Hyperliquid argues that its onchain transparency makes it less susceptible to manipulation, not more. 

Walt Lukken, president and CEO of the Futures Industry Association, and Chris Perkins, CEO of 250 Digital Asset Management, sit down with Laura Shin to work through the options: come onshore and get the licenses, stay offshore and keep growing, or further decentralize until there is no entity left to regulate. The answer may reshape how global derivatives markets are built for the next decade.

Host:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:


Walt Lukken | President & CEO, Futures Industry Association


Chris Perkins⁠ | CEO, 250 Digital Asset Management

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The repo market is $16 trillion globally and most people have never heard of it — until the plumbing breaks. Craig Burchell of FalconX and Matteo Pandolfi of Pareto explain how it works and why bringing it on-chain is the next big unlock for DeFi.

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Heads up!

If you haven’t yet, be sure to subscribe to Bits + Bips, since the show will migrate there in a few weeks. Follow us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Unchained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and wherever you get your podcasts.

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The repo market is $16 trillion globally and it is, as Craig Burchell puts it, the oil that makes everything go. It is also almost entirely absent from on-chain finance — and that gap is creating real problems for RWA liquidity, stablecoin swap desks, and DeFi protocols trying to manage redemption queues. Steve Ehrlich sits down with Craig Burchell, head of lending at FalconX, and Matteo Pandolfi, CEO of on-chain credit infrastructure provider Pareto, to map exactly how repo works, what broke in 2019, why it translates extremely well into onchain finance. Matteo puts a $1 trillion figure on where on-chain repo gets in five years. Craig gives you one reason it gets there and one very honest reason it might not.

Host:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Steve Ehrlich, Head of Research at SharpLink and Host of Bits + Bips: The Interview - https://x.com/Steven_Ehrlich

Guest:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Craig Burchell — Head of Lending, FalconX; previously Head of Lending at Membrane Finance. @_CraigBirchall


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matteo Pandolfi — CEO & Co-Founder, Pareto (on-chain credit infrastructure). @pan_teo_

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Coinbase just became the official USDC treasury deployer on Hyperliquid. Alex Weseley of Artemis explains how this boosts Hyperliquid’s annual revenue by 25%.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠Coinbase One⁠⁠: Get 20% off the first year of your Coinbase One annual plan at ⁠⁠coinbase.com/unchained⁠⁠.

========================================================

The morning this episode was recorded, Coinbase announced it was acquiring the USDH brand and becoming the official USDC treasury deployer on Hyperliquid — a deal with $150 million in annual revenue implications for a platform that previously earned nothing from its $5 billion USDC float.

Alex Weseley, institutional data lead at Artemis Analytics, walks through the math on the HYPE price move, explains why the deal had to be bilateral between Circle and Coinbase, lays out his $300 billion Coinbase thesis built on X402 and agentic commerce, and takes on the question Laura's been asking all week: is the Circle–Coinbase relationship heading for divorce?

Host:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:


⁠Alex Weseley — Institutional Data Lead, Artemis Analytics

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