Unchained

Charles Schwab’s chief crypto strategist breaks down why traditional finance valuation frameworks, not narratives, are finally taking hold in digital assets.

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Charles Schwab recently hired Jim Ferraioli to build a dedicated crypto research team, a signal that institutions are moving beyond narrative-driven investing and are taking this asset class seriously. 

In this episode, Steven Ehrlich sits down with Jim to explore how traditional finance valuation frameworks apply to crypto. They discuss Bitcoin’s role as a hedge against monetary debasement (not a safe haven), Jim’s cost-of-production model for valuing Bitcoin, and why Ethereum’s dominance in tokenization matters far more than short-term price action. 

Most compellingly, Jim argues that today’s Bitcoin prices sit at historical support levels used by the most efficient miners, and that Ethereum’s position as the tokenization standard is nearly unshakeable. If you’ve been waiting for crypto analysis grounded in fundamentals rather than hype, this is the conversation to hear.

Host:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Steven Ehrlich⁠, Head of Research, SharpLink

Guest:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jim Ferraioli, Director of Digital Currencies Research and Strategy at Charles Schwab

Links:

Charles Schwab & Institutional Crypto Research


Jim Ferraioli | Charles Schwab


CoinDesk: 


Liquidity Lifts Bitcoin, but 'Halving Cycle' Fears Could Limit Rally, Says Schwab


Nasdaq: 


Top 4 Reasons More Americans Are Investing in Crypto, According to Schwab

Ethereum Tokenization & Real-World Assets


Coindesk: 


The Tokenization Boom: Why Ethereum Remains the Rails for RWA Tokenization

Quantum Computing Risk


CoinDesk: 


Bitcoin Isn't Under Quantum Threat Yet, but Upgrading Could Take 5-10 Years


How Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Solana Are Preparing for the Quantum Threat

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Chaos Labs' Omer Goldberg unpacks the $285 million Drift Protocol exploit. Did the perp DEX fail to implement best practices?

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Solana's biggest perp DEX Drift Protocol was exploited for $285 million on April Fool's Day in a compromise observers have described as “methodical” and “chilling.”

Chaos Labs founder Omer Goldberg unpacks how the exploit, which is among the 10 largest in DeFi history, went down, including how hackers leveraged a Solana feature to lie in wait without triggering alarms and how the attack bore some resemblance to the Mango DAO and Resolv exploits.

He also weighs in on criticism against Circle for its slow response and whether the exploit has the markings of a North Korean state sponsored attack.

In Omer's telling, the loss could have been avoided. 

Listen to find out more!

Guest:


⁠Omer Goldberg, Founder and CEO of Chaos Labs

Previous appearances on Unchained:


How the Resolv Hack Was a Web2 Exploit, Not a Crypto One - Uneasy Money

Links

Unchained:


Drift Protocol Suffers $285 Million Exploit After Admin Key Compromise and Oracle Manipulation


Uneasy Money: How the Resolv Hack Shows an Audit Doesn’t Mean ‘Secure’


The Mango Markets Attacker on Whether His ‘Trade’ Was Ethical or Not


North Korean Hackers Are Winning. Is the Crypto Industry Ready to Stop Them?

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The Chopping Block crew and Wintermute’s Evgeny Gaevoy debate whether Canton is truly permissionless, if Ethereum Foundation should double down on cypherpunk ideals or embrace institutions, and how AI-driven attacks are forcing everyone in crypto and open source to rethink security models.

Welcome to The Chopping Block — where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This week we’ve got Evgeny Gaevoy, Founder of Wintermute, known for sharp takes and sharper trades.

First up, the group unpacks the Twitter war over enterprise chain Canton—does it deserve to be called “permissionless”, or is it just TradFi with extra steps? Cue the Solana–Ethereum truce, and a rare moment where every old-school degenerate finds a common enemy. Evgeny makes a strong case for why, despite years of jokes at the Ethereum Foundation’s expense, he thinks they’re finally ahead of the curve by doubling down on cypherpunk roots—even if it makes ETH a little more Linux and a little less Nasdaq.

But does decentralization matter if stablecoins and institutions now control the fork-choice? Haseeb and Evgeny spar over whether Ethereum’s “world computer” vision means inviting in the corporate crowd or keeping the punk sanctuary alive.

The mood shifts as the hosts dig into crypto’s unfolding security meltdown: AI-written hacks, NPM supply chain fiascos, and what that means for the future of open source in crypto. Plus, a fresh new hack (RIP Drift), and predictions on how defensive tech (or lack thereof) will shape the next cycle. Barstool banter, spicy takes, and zero investment advice as always—let’s get into it.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights

🔹 The Chopping Block crew and Evgeny Gaevoy debate whether Canton is a permissionless blockchain or just TradFi LARPing as crypto  

🔹 Does Ethereum need to double down on cypherpunk “sanctuary” values—or let BlackRock and Circle join the party?  

🔹 Haseeb dismantles the idea that all “tokenized RWAs” on “permissioned” blockchains are equivalent to Ethereum  

🔹 Solana and Ethereum align—briefly!—with both camps skeptical of enterprise “default no” blockchains  

🔹 Circle and Tether’s growing influence: can fork-choice governance still exist if stables dictate the canonical chain?  

🔹 Linux, the open internet, and how crypto’s utopian dreams get co-opted by institutions  

🔹 Drift’s $270M hack highlights the AI-enabled acceleration of exploits and the mounting risks for open-source software  

🔹 AI in security: From North Korean supply chain attacks to open source’s existential crisis  

🔹 Is the future of crypto code closed or open? Zero knowledge proofs vs. code visibility in the LLM era  

🔹 Are we headed for a world where only org-backed, audit-heavy open source survives?

Hosts

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures

⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly 

Guest

⭐️ Evgeny Gaevoy, Founder and CEO at Wintermute

Disclosures
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Former FTX General Counsel Ryne Miller joins the DEX in the City crew to unpack the CFTC's crypto moves. Does the agency have the staffing to achieve its “aggressive” agenda?

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The Commodity Futures Trading Commission under Chair Mike Selig has unveiled an expansive agenda across artificial intelligence, crypto and prediction markets. 

Former CFTC staffer and FTX General Counsel Ryne Miller joins DEX in the City hosts Vy Le and Jessi Brooks to unpack the agenda and answer whether the regulator has the resources to fulfill it.

According to Miller, the agenda could see the agency return to a schedule similar to the Dodd-Frank era under then-Chair Gary Gensler. 

Beyond the CFTC's regulatory moves, Miller also weighs in on the growing bans on the use of prediction markets by certain officials. Find out why he says it is a trend that is likely to continue. Plus, should Canton be segregated from other blockchains?

Hosts:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TuongVy Le, General Counsel at Veda

Guest:


⁠Ryne Miller, Partner at Morrison Foerster & Former FTX General Counsel

Links:


Unchained:


CFTC Clears Path for Phantom to Bridge Crypto Wallets and Derivatives


CFTC Moves to Rein In Prediction Markets as Industry Booms


SEC and CFTC Move Toward Unified Crypto Rules


Crypto Startup Bet on Its Own Fundraise on Polymarket, Then Apologized


How Prediction Markets Make Espionage So Much Easier — and Risk National Security


Visa Approves Its First Blockchain Governance Proposal, Joining Canton Network as Super Validator

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Google just set a deadline. Quantum computers could break Bitcoin's encryption by 2029. Are blockchains ready?

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Google and Oratomic published quantum computing research on the same day, and together they redraw the timeline for when blockchains need to be post-quantum secure.

Google's paper, co-authored by Ethereum Foundation researcher Justin Drake and Stanford cryptographer Dan Boneh, estimates 2029 for breaking the elliptic curve cryptography that protects Bitcoin and Ethereum.

Oratomic's findings are sharper: utility-scale quantum computers may need only 10,000 qubits, not the millions previously assumed, and the company already has 6,000 in the lab.

With 6.7 million BTC in vulnerable addresses and a newly identified 9-minute attack window on unspent Bitcoin transactions, the question is no longer whether blockchains need to migrate. It's whether they can do it fast enough.

Guests:


⁠Alex Pruden, Co-Founder & CEO, Project Eleven


⁠Dolev Bluvstein, CEO of Oratomic

Links:


Unchained:


Q-Day Is Imminent. Can Bitcoin Survive the Quantum Threat?


Solana Deploys Post-Quantum Signatures on Testnet


Is Nic Carter Exaggerating Bitcoin's Quantum Risk? Yes, Says One Core Dev


Research Papers:


Google: Securing Elliptic Curve Cryptocurrencies Against Quantum Vulnerabilities


Oratomic: Shor's Algorithm with as Few as 10,000 Reconfigurable Atomic Qubits (arXiv)


Caltech: Useful Quantum Computers Could Be Built with as Few as 10,000 Qubits


Companies & Tools:


Project Eleven


Project Eleven: Yellow Pages


Oratomic


BIP 360: Pay-to-Merkle-Root (P2MR)


Standards & Infrastructure:


NIST Post-Quantum Cryptography Standards


Cloudflare: State of the Post-Quantum Internet


Google Quantum AI: Willow & Error Correction


Algorand: Quantum-Resistant Falcon Signatures

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