Your monthly Members Matters update is packed with news of what's going on at the BABCP, interviews with our key members, and practical guidance from the CBT community from your hosts; Rachel Handley, Steph Curnow and Helen Macdonald. In This Episode: BABCP News & Updates Helen Macdonald gives you fresh perspectives on ethical and inclusive CBT practice as she shares updates on anti-racist and anti-oppressive practice webinars and gives a sneak peek into the upcoming EABCT conference. Introducing… Past President Saiqa Naz Helen welcomes Saiqa to the podcast as they reflect on her presidency, key achievements, and the work she did to support underrepresented groups in the CBT field. Spotlight on, Mental Health Wellbeing Practitioner Registration Erin Graham, the Accreditation and Registration Liaison Manager joins Steph Curnow to shed light on the importance of registration for Mental Health Wellbeing Practitioners (MHWP) for public protection and professional recognition. Ask Me AnythingSenior Clinical Advisor Helen Macdonald answers a listener question: When might CBT not be the right fit for a client? Podcast Picks, hear what other podcasts are coming up this month from the BABCP Let’s Talk About CBT – featuring Tafi and Sherrie Research Matters – with insights from Kerry Young Practice Matters- Augmented Depression Therapy with Barney Dunn Links and resources: Join a Special Interest Group (SIG): https://babcp.com/Membership/Special-Interest-Groups Find a CBT supervisor on the CBT Register: https://www.cbtregisteruk.com More information on our Journals Special Issues can be found here Check out our other podcasts Let’s Talk About CBT, Practice Matters, and Research Matters in our podcasts hub: https://babcp.com/Podcasts Contact us:
[email protected] New episodes every month – subscribe now so you don’t miss out. Credits: This podcast was produced by Purposeful Podcasts Music is Autmn Coffee by Bosnow from Uppbeat Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/bosnow/autumn-coffee License code: 3F32NRBYH67P5MIF Transcript: Rachel: Hello and welcome to Members Matters, the podcast made exclusively for BABCP members. I'm Rachel Handley, and I'm here with my co-host, Steph Curnow and Helen Macdonald. In each episode of this podcast, we'll bring you the latest news and information from members. You'll get to meet some of the key figures in the organization in our introducing section, and you'll get the chance to get involved too and ask me anything. Our senior clinical advisor, Helen Macdonald is going to take any question you'd like to ask. You'll also hear a bit more about the new Mental Health Wellbeing Practitioner registration in our spotlight on session. But first up, hello to my co-host, Steph and Helen. How are you both? Steph: Hi, I'm good. Thanks. So it's been really busy here at BABCP. How about you, Helen? Helen: Yeah, I'd agree with you. It's been busy. I guess some of the things that I've been up to in my role here is I've been part of a working party where we're reviewing our Standards of Conduct, Performance and Ethics at the moment, which is a big piece of work and so far we've been working with the Standards And Ethics Committee and we'll be bringing proposed updates and asking for feedback from all our members in the next few months while we try to make sure that what we are doing is really up to date and consistent with our values and ethical principles. So that's one of the pieces of work in other things that I've been up to thinking about our series of anti-racist, anti-oppressive practice webinars that have just started with the wonderful Leila Lawton and Rani Griffiths on Friday, and we've got a whole series coming up for you. And then other things, we responded to the Supreme Court ruling on gender and put out a statement, particularly supporting people who are trans, non-binary or intersex in terms of the impact that the ruling might have on people. Then finally, the other thing is that we are coming up soon to the EABCT conference, the European Association for Behavioural and Cognitive Therapies Conference that we are hosting in Glasgow in September, and all of our members are by being a member of BABCP they're also members of EABCT, and there's a really exciting program developing with experts from all over, speaking on such a variety of things. There'll be something for everybody. Rachel: So there's two for the price of one there. EABCT, and BABCP membership. And please come to the conference. It's going to be fantastic up in Glasgow. There's a lot going on, Helen, in the, in this space of diversity, but also kind of all these kind of ongoing developments around ethical practice, et cetera. So that. Sounds like again, you haven't been sitting with your feet up. How about you, Steph? How, how are things going in the, the world of the journals? Steph: Yeah, journals are good. They've been very busy at the moment. We've had a bumper month for submissions lately. Not just to our special issues, but also just general papers coming in as well. So thank you to everyone who's been submitting to us. I think people are desperate to get things off their desk before they finish for the summer. So it's keeping us very busy. We've also been really busy working on the new BABCP website that is coming out. Hopefully it should be out before this podcast is. Um, and yeah, so it's really exciting, but there's a lot of work going on behind the scenes to get that all up and ready and running. Rachel: So we're all ready to surf our away to that website and see all the, the brand new shop window for BABCP. Looking forward to that very much. Okay. So should we get into the podcast? First up is our introducing section where we'll be bringing you an in-depth conversation with some of the key people here at the BABCP. In this episode, Helen's going to be chatting to Saiqa Naz, our past president. Helen, it must have been really interesting to talk with Saiqa cause she was a president who forged a new path in many directions, both personally and professionally in the role. Helen: Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's a real pleasure always to talk to Saiqa and she does indeed, pioneers new pathways. She comes from a background, which unfortunately is, is perhaps unusual in our profession in the sense of coming from a working class background as a British Muslim from the northwest of England, coming from her personal involvement in community supporting and advocating for her community and that leading her into a career in mental health where she's eventually become our president of BABCP at the same time as being a clinical psychology student, which really speaks to her motivation and determination. And along that way, she's, for example, been the first chair of our Equalities and Culture Sig, our first recipient of the Engagement and Involvement Award. So she's a real example of someone who has overcome a number of different intersecting barriers to success and has succeeded anyway. Rachel: So let's hear from Saiqa and I'm particularly fascinated to hear what she does in her spare time given all of that Helen: Saiqa, would you like to introduce yourself? Saiqa: Hi Helen. I'm Saiqa Naz, past president of BABCP. So I completed that role in November 2024, so I'm not that long ago. I'm still on the board until September. I'm a CBT therapist. I'm also clinical psychologist. Helen: We're absolutely delighted to have you with us today, and I just wondered whether you would tell us a little bit about your reflections now that you've completed two years as president and it's a little bit further down the line since you became past president. Saiqa: In hindsight, I think it was a bit of a brave move. There's no, no regrets. And if I was presented with the same option again, I'd be like, yeah, I'm going to do this. So yeah, I think that's what I'd say. Sometimes we, we do things where we take the plunge, let's call it, but nothing can prepare you for the role. Helen: Okay. So when you say take the plunge, it really felt like you were in the deep end some of the time. Saiqa: Yeah. And there was things happening that we couldn't have foreseen to be fair. And it was those moments like, oh, okay. Didn't see that one coming. But then that's, that's the thing about leadership. You have curve balls thrown at you from different angles sometimes, sometimes at once, and you have to try and battle with them or manage them. So it was an eventful presidency for sure. Helen: Okay, so I wonder if I can ask you a bit about things that stand out to you about perhaps things that you are really proud of, either proud of our members, proud of the association, and proud of your work while you were president of BABCP. Saiqa: I think in terms of representation, we've not had many female past presidents, so I think on that front, I was probably the youngest, you know, I probably wasn't one of the few that wasn't a professor towards the end of their careers. So actually I, in terms of the intersectionality and what I was bringing, I think I was bringing a lot into the role, I think. But in terms of, you know, and I was thinking about this today and I was thinking, you know, BABCP, it is gone through a huge transformation and there's things happening around NHS England at the minute, you know, the media and lots of organizations are going through a transformation, and I think the BABCP have done it really well. If I may say, some staff and, you know, credit to the staff. We made some quick decision, bold decisions. We try to drive the association forward and staff are on board with that change. And I really would like to thank the staff and the membership. COVID got in the way and it created disconnect, I think not just within our association, I think in society. In general, the members like coming back into the room and getting more involved with the association. We had some tricky conversations about the relationship between the membership and the association and what does that look like, and those conversations are still ongoing. So trying to bring the membership back in. I think we had some conversations, didn't we, about a year ago, and I was like, no, I want to focus on the membership now. So yeah, so what did I bring to it? I think I've brought a level of energy, enthusiasm, and drive that actually we've got to move on quite quickly. And be at the forefront of conversations in the media, research, clinical skills, and actually continue to be leaders in that field and think about succession planning for the next generation as well. Helen: I mean, that's fantastic to reflect on just how much happened in the two years that you were president and still happening, and I just wonder if anything stands out in your mind as the most fun or the most informative event that you attended while you were president? Saiqa: The bits I really loved was the connection with the staff, so popping into the office. The staff are lovely. I remember going to a staff team meeting and I was just going go, right, I'm going to say this to them. And I just saw a bunch of lovely faces on the screen. I think I've shared this story before and my heart just bit melted and I, I just, yeah, I just remember Alistair's smile and Ann was there, and it's about, so, you know, there's a lovely workforce that we have, but members and the public don't get to see 'cause obviously they're working hard behind the association and the association's expanded. So there's that moment and that taught me just like pipe down Saiqa, but I think, yeah, it was just it. I think that was one of my defining things, but also the conferences are just amazing. You know, after you've been apart and then you come back together. So although I'd have a had a stressful first year and those things happening, and we recruited a new CEO and we added lay directors to the board as well, those things made a difference. But I just remember being at conference and going, today, I'm not president, you know, I'm going to just enjoy my time with my membership, and, and that was it. So there was moments like that that I really hold onto, I think. Helen: So in the midst of a lot of rapid change and some really significant challenges that connecting with people, both the members and the staff has been part of the highlights for you. Saiqa: Absolutely. It's all about, I always say it's all about the membership from the public protecting the public. Helen: So Stirling has now been president for a few months, and one of the things that I was going to ask you about was whether you had any words of wisdom or particular things that you would like to say to somebody who's stepping into the President's shoes? You've already said that it was very much taking the plunge, going in the deep end. Is there anything that you would really want to say to somebody who's recently become the president or might be the next one? Saiqa: Absolutely. I think it is a brilliant opportunity to serve the membership and it's a brilliant opportunity cause my fingerprints are all over this association. Literally, you know, everywhere policies and governance and strategy, and we're working on the comms, we are doing men's mental health, you know, so there's so much that I've been involved in and it's a real opportunity. Bring your creative streak. I think even in the midst of challenge and general mayhem at times, actually. That, that is an opportunity to drive change and innovate so not to be scared when you get your curve balls. Helen: And what you've mentioned there about men's mental health, that was very much in your manifesto and you are continuing to work on that. And I know that Stirling, as our current president has said that staff wellbeing is one of the things that he would really like to promote. And again, I just wondered from your perspective, Saiqa, whether you've got any really good staff wellbeing tips. How do you manage to say so cheerful, so motivated in the face of lots of demand and lots of challenges. And like you say, having your fingers, fingerprints all over it. Saiqa: Yeah. Um, I think, I think there's different layers to this. Helen. I think there's one around, you know, have that break from work and my involvement with the BABCP, it nourishes me. Even when it, I was challenged, you know, I had to remind myself why I'm involved with this association. It's a charity and think sometimes we forget it's a charity. So we, it's an opportunity to give back something, but also we get something back, which is relationships and opportunities to, to grow and innovate. Um, so from a membership wellbeing perspective, it's, I know it's hard. I know working in your services is hard and I know the workforce is often looked at less favourably than other psychological therapies, professions, and I just want to acknowledge that, that you're experts in your own right. I want to see more of you in leadership. so that's what I'd say to you. So think about your professional development and also outside of work is connect with branches and special interest groups. Connect with family and friends because it gives you that break away from where, where it can feel a bit relentless or if you're being marginalized or excluded because you're just a CBT therapist and you know, and I think I want us to move towards a place which is we are no less than any other profession cause we don't speak about any other profession in denigrating way. So don't speak about this profession in that way. That's where I'm at with it. So I want us to have courage to actually put some boundaries in place around some of these narratives that I perpetuate, I think. Helen: Okay. So even though you're not the president anymore, and like you said earlier, your, your term of being past president officially comes to an end in September, although you'll be past president forever. What are looking forward to doing more of, I mean, what are your next projects or things that you are hoping to see now that your official role in that level of leadership is changing? What are you looking forward to? Saiqa: Um, do you know there's one point I was like, yeah, I could just go and not do anything else really. You know I became president because I wanted to raise a profile of the association. I was in the media, I was talking about CBT and I was going, hang on, why isn't BABCP doing this? And as you know, that's something that we've been looking at and I've been trying to force that. And I'm pleased that we are developing a communication strategy and that's going to get resourced. Part of the association will be resourced. So I'll still be involved. I want to see that to completion to some extent, and then step back.And men's mental health, I'll still be involved with BABCP to some extent. I think I carry all this knowledge now, but at the same time, what I really want to see is I want to see people being supported and mentor to get involved from underrepresented groups. This includes working class backgrounds and from a working class background, um, to be able to sit on the board. Actually on these higher positions, and I know we're developing a leadership program within the association and it really was to think about giving our members the opportunity to develop the leadership skills, but also have leadership opportunities. So quite looking forward to seeing, sitting back and, uh, seeing where the next generation takes us. But yeah, I think I'm delving a little bit more towards research. You know, CBT is a gold standard, but we want to make sure as many people can benefit from it. So I think on my personal side of things, I'm thinking maybe a little bit of clinical work, a little bit of research, but I'm just being curious, Helen. I'm just being curious. I just sit back and see what happens. Helen: That's absolutely fantastic, Saiqa, thank you very much indeed for talking to me today. Thank you, Helen. Steph: Welcome to our Spotlight on Sessions. This is the part of the podcast where we aim to spotlight a branch or a special interest group, or a particular area of BABCP that we want our members to know a bit more about. Today I'm joined by Erin Graham to talk all about Mental Health And Wellbeing Practitioner registration. Hi Erin. Welcome to Members Matters. Erin: Hi Steph. Steph: Would you like to introduce yourself a bit to listeners who might not know you? Erin: Certainly, so my name's Erin Graham and I'm the Accreditation and Registration Liaison Manager here at the BABCP. My role essentially is the oversight and a lot of operational matters around Wellbeing Practitioner Registration, and Cognitive Psychotherapist Accreditation. Steph: So we are here today to talk about the Mental Health And Wellbeing Practitioner Registration, which is quite a mouthful. Erin: MHWP’s for short. Steph: MHWP’s for short. I think that's what we'll call them. Could you tell us a little bit about what an MHWP does? Erin: Yeah. So a qualified MHWP focuses on the delivery of brief wellbeing, psychologically informed interventions, but they also support collaborative care planning within a multidisciplinary team, and they work with adults with severe mental health problems. The MHWP role has been developed as part of a wider initiative, I think, within the NHS to increase access to psychological interventions for people with more severe mental health problems. So when we're thinking about what an MHWP does in terms of what we've looked at within and what's outlined in the registration requirements is that all of the work that an MHWP undertakes should be psychologically informed and formulation driven. And there has to be a balance of the personalized care planning and the delivery of the psychological interventions. Um, and we have kind of specified that there has to be a minimum of percent of the time spent on those psychological assess formulations and interventions that were taught within the MHWP national curriculum. So some of the interventions that MHWP’s might be familiar, and will be similar to interventions provided by other types of wellbeing practitioners. But some of them will also be quite different. So some of the kind of similarities will be in behavioural activation and exposure and improving kind of sleep. But the MHWPS are also trained in looking at kind of problem solving skills in a slightly different way. They're also kind of trained in looking at recognizing and managing emotions and building confidence as well as working with worry as well. Steph: Okay. So what kind of training or qualifications would you need for this role? Erin: Essentially, to be eligible for registration and to be working within these roles and will need to have completed the MHWP specific training. That is a BPS accredited training as there is for all of the different psychological wellbeing practitioners, there is specific training for each of those roles that people do need to have undertaken to be working with and to be registered for that role. Steph: And why is it important for us to register MHWP’s? Erin: Well, I think ultimately there are kind of two main reasons why we should. And the first one, which is always kind of our ultimate priority is around protection of the public. And I suppose the second is around professional registration and having a community to be part of. So when we think about protection of the public, MHWP’s like most psychological professionals that are not subject to statutory regulation. However, being part of an appearing on a PSA accredited register alongside guidance from NHS Commission Services offers the public assurances, regards the professional that they're working with and the training that they've received, and that they continuing to meet those registration requirements. In terms of protection of the public, I think it also offers a place outside of services that individuals might be accessing to raise concerns about an individual if needed. And that's another, you know, key function that we serve here at the BABCP. When we are thinking about kind of individuals and we're thinking about professional recognition, again, registration offers that recognition of the training and the skills and the experiences, um, that MHWPS have gained and are bringing to their role. And it's a really important opportunity for individuals to be part of a wider wellbeing practitioner community if members and individuals and MHWP’s do choose to register with the BABCP, we really hope to be able to provide a place for MHWPs to be part of a community and they would be joining nearly 5,000 other wellbeing practitioners within the BABCP and will have the opportunity to then become more involved. Steph: So how can MHWP’s register with us? Erin: So registration will be launching on the 30th of June and when it's live and when that registration is launched, MHWP members will be able to apply online. So it's a, a fairly straightforward application form, they will be able to apply online. They will need to have all of their details to be able to complete the application and they will need to upload their certificate to evidence their training as part of the application, and their supervisors will also be contacted on submission of the application to also supply a supervisor report. So they're going to be the two main additional things alongside the application form itself that MHPS will need to provide. So they'll need to provide their qualification, the certificate, and they will need to provide the details of their supervisor, and their supervisor will need to submit a supervisor report. Steph: Brilliant. So you've mentioned the BPS already a little bit. How does it work when two different bodies are registering MHWP’s? Erin: So essentially the requirements for registration are the same. So we have worked collaboratively with the BPS and with NHSE around the registration scheme. And part of kind of what we have to do is make sure that everything is aligned. So all of the requirements are essentially exactly the same, regardless of which body individuals might choose to register with. So I think what it will then just come down to is individual preferences about which organization they feel they want to be part of. Steph: Okay, brilliant. Well, Erin, that's been great. Thank you so much for coming and talking to us about this. It's been really, really helpful. Erin:: You're welcome. Rachel: So now we return to Ask Me Anything, the part of Members Matters where we get to hear from you as Helen as our senior clinical advisor hat on and addresses your questions. Steph: Yeah. So Helen, we have another one from the mailbag. This came in a couple of weeks ago from a member, and the question is, when do you know CBT is not right for a client? Helen: Well, that's a really good question. Thank you. And in some ways, on the surface of it, it sounds like the answer to that would be fairly straightforward, but I think there's some subtleties to it. So I think one of the things is that we need to make sure that what we're offering in CBT fits with the evidence base. So somebody is coming to us with a difficulty where CBT isn't the best approach for dealing with those difficulties, then CBT probably isn't right for them. And we might say if somebody doesn't want CBT also that it wouldn't be right for them. But I think there's a number of things that we need to take into consideration that sometimes people have had experience of things where perhaps somebody suggested it was a CBT approach, which we wouldn't necessarily agree, met our understanding of what the evidence base is. So we need to make sure that if we have a client that we've properly ensured that they've understood what CBT is and why it might help and how it might help. And then we have things like thinking about what suitability is, and we have to think about the suitability of the therapist. Um, but in terms of client characteristics, there are some people who will benefit more easily without adaptations. But we need to think very carefully about adaptations. We make to ensure that if we're offering the right therapy, it's also accessible for the person we're seeing. So, for example, we talk about motivation and people aren't necessarily motivated when they walk in the room. It's something that we as therapists can do to help people become more motivated. It may well be that there are individual characteristics of that person that might make it more important for us to make sure we've made appropriate adjustments so that they can access what we're offering. And then people talk about things like psychological mindedness. So we might have to help someone to understand the connection between thoughts, feelings, and behaviours. People don't necessarily automatically know that. Again, it helps if people are able to agree, a shared understanding, which is again, very much the job of the therapist to help somebody develop a shared understanding of what the difficulties are and help someone to articulate goals in a way that they can be smart so that they're, they're realistic and achievable, and I guess there will be things around whether somebody has learning difficulties or perhaps really severe and complex difficulties that would affect whether the service they've come to can really meet their needs, even if CBT is suitable, considering whether somebody needs a more specialist service or a more specifically specialist therapist in order to meet those needs. So I've just done a lot of talking there. I'm just wondering, Rachel, do you think I've covered what I needed to Rachel: You covered that very comprehensively I think Helen and I think, you know, it's hard, isn't it, as therapists? cause we, we do this job because we want to help people and sometimes one of the hardest things we have to do is to be able to say, actually I don't think this is right for you, or hopefully more often agree that very collaboratively with our patient. So it's really good to have that awareness in our own minds that we're not always the answer. Um, and sometimes that's simply about timing. Helen: Yeah, that's a really good point, Rachel, about sometimes that we have exactly the right toolkit to help somebody, but perhaps their social support network or their current circumstances mean that there are other priorities right now and isn't the right time for CBT, but it might be in the future. Rachel: Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Helen. For answering that question, which we just threw it at you. So, um, and remember folks, if you want to take part in ask me anything, please do email us
[email protected]. We'll also put that email in the show notes and the episode notes. So please do get in touch if you have any burning questions that you want us to again, Chuck at Helen, and see how she does. Rachel: So before we go, do you want to tell us what's been happening in the Let's Talk Podcasts, Helen. What's been happening in the, in the flagship show? Helen: Well, in, Let's Talk About CBT, the most recent episode that we put out there. I'm talking with Tafi and Sherrie. So Tafi is a man from a black African background who found himself in difficulties when he was living in London and really benefited from the NHS Talking Therapies service that he received and he happened to have a friend who is Sherrie, who's a CBT therapist, and together they went on to create an app which essentially uses CBT principles to help to prompt people, and it's very much designed for a context where people don't have access to, for example, a lot of data. They might have a, a mobile phone. So for example, in the African context where lots of people have a phone but don't have much in the way of, of access to data. And so the apps designed on CBT principles to be accessible to the broadest possible range of people. And it's really interesting to talk to them and hear what they've got to say from that perspective. Rachel: Fantastic and on Research Matters, Steph? Steph: Yeah, so I've got a podcast with Kerry Young where she's talking through the model of working with CT-PTSD for people who have experienced rape. And so it's, it's not the lightest of subjects, but it's really important and you can just tell just how passionate Kerry is about working with this client group as well. It's such a good episode. Rachel: And having interacted with Kerry in, in lots of ways over the years, I've never failed to come away inspired or actually full of hope, which is quite extraordinary given the work that she talks about. So yeah, really recommend that to folk to listen to that podcast. Helen: I'm really looking forward to hearing it Steph: Yeah. And Rach, you've got another podcast coming out in your miniseries of depression. Rachel: Yes, I've really enjoyed talking to Professor Barney Dunn from Exter University on his new treatment, well, not so new, he's been going for a while now, but Augmented Depression Therapy or ADEPT as it's known, which focuses particularly on positive affect. Um, and I think it can be really inspiring for folk particularly working with depression, which again, in the context of our previous discussion could feel a bit heavy and sometimes quite hard going to continually think about how they can adapt their cognitive therapy constantly to put their patient's values and aspirations at the heart of the work, which is what this model does so well. And again, you know, full, full of hope and, and light actually in, in those dark places that people find themselves in. Steph: And Barney talks really eloquently about it as well, doesn't he? It's just very clear, isn't it? And really straightforward Rachel: An editor's dream, right Steph? Steph: He was an absolute dream. Rachel: So that's about it for today. So all that remains to be said is a huge thank you for listening to Members Matters and all that you, the members do to make the BABCP a great organization to be part of. We'll be back in a month's time with more BABCP news and updates, and until then, it's bye from me.
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