Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

Ask David: Is High Speed Change a Quick Fix?
Trauma, Anxiety, and What Really Works
Hosts:
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT
Dr. David Burns
Guest: Dr. Rhonda Barovsky
Episode Summary
In this powerful Ask David episode, Dr. David Burns, Kevin Cornelius, and Dr. Rhonda Barovsky tackle two deeply important listener questions:
Is rapid emotional recovery just a "quick fix," especially for people with severe trauma?
How can someone manage intense anxiety and "what if" thoughts in the moment—when they keep coming back?
Through vivid clinical stories, real examples from the Feeling Great app, and live demonstrations of TEAM-CBT techniques, the panel explores why working in the present moment can lead to profound and lasting emotional change—even for people with severe trauma histories.
Question 1: Is Fast Change Just a "Quick Fix"?
Dr. Burns responds to a question inspired by the story of Elise, a Holocaust survivor who recovered from severe depression after challenging a single, devastating belief:
"I've never accomplished anything meaningful in my life."
When that belief was overturned, Elise's depression disappeared—immediately.
Listeners often wonder:
Was something deeper left unresolved?
Doesn't trauma require long-term exploration of the past?
Dr. Burns shares:
50 years of clinical experience producing rapid, measurable symptom elimination
Research from the Feeling Great app showing that current thoughts—not past suffering—predict change
Why working in the present moment automatically transforms the past
Why many therapy schools rely on belief systems rather than data
He also discusses new findings (recently published in Psychology Today) showing that prior depression over the last two years adds zero predictive value once current mood and thoughts are addressed. "The moment you're in is vastly more important than the one you remember."
Question 2: What If My Anxious Thoughts Keep Coming Back?
The second question comes from Dina, a college student overwhelmed by social anxiety and catastrophic "what if" thoughts about meeting with her professor.
Despite successfully completing a Daily Mood Log and reducing her anxiety to near zero, Dina finds that the thoughts keep returning in real-life situations.
The team explains why this happens—and what to do next.
Key strategies discussed:
Why cognitive work alone isn't enough for anxiety
The importance of exposure and testing fears in real situations
Using self-disclosure to dissolve shame
Turning anxiety into connection rather than avoidance
Role-playing feared scenarios ("Professor from Hell")
Externalization of voices
Feared fantasy and "what-if" techniques
Shame-attacking exercises
Asking for real feedback instead of guessing what others think
Identifying hidden emotions (such as unexpressed anger)
Understanding interpersonal roles and rules that fuel anxiety
Multiple techniques are demonstrated live, showing how anxiety collapses when fears are brought into the open with warmth, humor, and honesty.
Key Takeaways
Rapid emotional change is not a gimmick—it can be measured, replicated, and sustained
Trauma is embedded in the present moment, not trapped in the past
Anxiety persists when we hide, not when we feel
Exposure + self-disclosure = freedom
You don't need to eliminate negative thoughts—just stop believing them
The Feeling Great app offers free, evidence-based tools anyone can use
Tools & Resources Mentioned
Feeling Great App (free): https://feelinggreat.com
Daily Mood Log
TEAM-CBT tools: Motivational Methods
Cognitive Techniques
Exposure
Hidden Emotion Work

Five Secrets of Effective Communication
Psychology Today article: "The Moment You're In Is Vastly More Important Than the One You Remember"
Memorable Quotes
"When we change the present, we change the past." — Dr. David Burns
"Shame is like a vampire—it can't survive the light of day."
"Stop doing one thing and expecting it to work for everyone."
"You don't need to be perfect to feel better."
Listener Invitation
Have a question you'd like Dr. Burns to answer on a future episode?
Submit it through the Feeling Great app or the Feeling Good Podcast website.
Kevin, Rhonda, and I thank you for listening today! 
Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode
Please use this link to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode
Contact Information
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at www.tools4change.me.
Dr. Rhonda Barovsky is a Level 5 Certified TEAM-CBT Master Therapist and Trainer and specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. Check out her website: www.feelinggreattherapycenter.com.
You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected].
Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app.
Feeling Great feels wonderful!
You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT!
Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness!

Ask David: Help! Relentless Anger! Nothing Works!
Is Freedom of Speech a "Need?"
Hosts:
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT
Dr. David Burns
Guest: Dr. Rhonda Barovsky
Today I am thrilled to be working with our new host for the Feeling Good Podcast, Mr. Kevin Cornelius, a dear friend and brilliant therapist who works as a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist at the Feeling Good Institute in Mt. View, California. Today, Keven starts a multi-podcast trial as our new host to find out how he likes the new position, and how you, are audience feel. It will be hard for anyone to fill Rhonda's shoes, of course, but Kevin brings his own combination of warmth, charm, and brilliance to the show. I hope you like the new show! Let us know what you think!
Today, we address three questions:
Question #1: How do you deal with a "relentlessly angry" patient who does not respond to the five secrets of effective communication?
Question #2: How can I deal with a patient who may have been triggered by my phone call when I had to change l a scheduled session?
Question #3: Zach asks if freedom of speech is a "want" or a "need."
Hi David and Kevin:
I have cleared my schedule so I can be there to support Kevin in his first podcast,.
I have two questions for the Ask David podcast:
1.) How do you handle a "relentlessly angry" patient? By that I mean, one of your patient's is upset with you, you respond with a skillful 5-secrets response and yet they continue being angry with you, even screaming at you for 30 minutes.
David's comment: The discussion of this excellent question got a little heated, as David pointed out that in his experience, when people say "I tried the Five Secrets and it didn't work," 100% of the time they did not actually do a skillful job with the Five Secrets. David asked for the familiar format: What is ONE thing the (angry) patient said, and what, EXACTLY, did you say next? Put this on a Relationship Journal and you will be able to spot your errors right away.
David reports that this format does tend to anger people who don't want to have to examine their own role in a relationship problem. The idea that they may have botched the Five Secrets appears to be deeply disturbing, hence the heated discussion today.
2.) How do you handle what is happening "in the here and now" immediate moment, the here and now, with your patient? For example, I had to change an appointment with a patient, she became really angry, and then cancelled her next appointment. One of my colleagues suggested that my patient might have felt triggered when I cancelled the appointment. My colleague suggested I talk to her about what happened when I asked her to change the appointment because if she felt abandoned by me she might have the same experience with other people. How would I bring up what is happening in our relationship with my patient, that they may also experience in other relationships?
I could probably think of a few more,
Rhonda
3) Dear Dr. Burns,
Hello. I hope this message finds you well. I'm writing to ask you a question that has been on my mind.
You have mentioned before that freedom of speech is an important part of your value system. I'm curious about how you would frame it psychologically: do you see freedom of speech more as a want, or as a need?
Relatedly, for people living in non-democratic countries, do you think it is still possible to achieve a high level of happiness without freedom of speech?
I would greatly appreciate your thoughts when you have the time. Thank you very much for your work and for sharing your perspectives.
Warm regards,
Zack
David's Comment: This led to a lively discussion and a consensus on our panel today. We decided that freedom of speech is a great thing, and a strong want, but not a "need." David added: "I am certain that you can find happiness by focusing on the things most important to you, but no one can be happy all the time. We desperately WANT, but definitely do not NEED, freedom of speech. Of course, you can say, "we need it to have a fully functioning democracy," and that is true, but it true by definition.
Kevin, Rhonda, and David thank you for listening today. Again, let us know what you think!
Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode
Please use this link to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode
Contact Information
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at www.tools4change.me.
Dr. Rhonda Barovsky is a Level 5 Certified TEAM-CBT Master Therapist and Trainer and specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. Check out her website: www.feelinggreattherapycenter.com.
You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected].
Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our Feeling Great app.
Feeling Great feels wonderful!
You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT!
Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness!

500: Celebrating Rhonda's Triumphant Leadership -
and a Sad Goodbye
In this very special 500th episode of the Feeling Good Podcast, Matt May, Jill Levitt and I pause to celebrate a remarkable milestone, our 500th episode of the Feeling Good podcast, and to honor someone who has been at the heart of it for the past 273 episodes: Rhonda Barovsky
Since stepping into the role of host, Rhonda has brought warmth, wisdom, curiosity, and deep compassion to every conversation. Her presence has helped shape the podcast into a trusted space for learning, healing, personal growth, and building the TEAM community. Week after week, she has guided thoughtful discussions on mood, relationships, anxiety, depression, and the many challenges of being human—with authenticity and grace.
Rhonda's unique ability to ask meaningful questions, highlight practical tools, and connect with listeners has made an immeasurable impact. Whether exploring TEAM CBT techniques or sharing personal reflections, she has helped countless listeners feel seen, understood, and empowered.
As Rhonda steps down from her role as host, this episode is dedicated to celebrating her contributions and expressing deep gratitude for all she has given to this community.
In this episode, we:
Reflect on Rhonda's journey with the podcast and how she became such an integral part of its success
Highlight memorable moments and favorite episodes from her time as host
Share behind-the-scenes stories and personal reflections
Express appreciation from listeners and the broader Feeling Good community
This is not goodbye—it's a transition. Rhonda leaves behind a powerful legacy and a strong foundation that will continue to inspire future episodes and listeners around the world.
Thank you, Rhonda, for your dedication, your heart, and your unwavering commitment to helping people feel better.
And to our listeners: thank you for being part of these 500 episodes. We're so glad you're here—and we're excited for what comes next as Kevin Cornelius steps into the role of the Feeling Good Podcast host.  Welcome, Kevin!
Warmly,
David, Rhonda, Matt and Jill

Inside the Therapy Room:
A Live TEAM CBT Session with Hiral--
The Exciting Conclusion!
Part 2 of 2
Overview
What an incredible day. David and I had the privilege of working with Hiral, a young mother from India who was drowning in perfectionism, self-criticism, and the crushing weight of trying to be everything to everyone. Over the course of about two hours, we watched her transform from someone scoring 100% on depression, anxiety, guilt, shame, and hopelessness to feeling peaceful, relaxed, and genuinely joyful—with most scores dropping to zero.
This wasn't magic. It was TEAM-CBT done systematically, with measurement, genuine empathy, paradoxical agenda setting, and powerful cognitive techniques. And yes, Hiral did most of the heavy lifting herself once we got out of her way.
For those of you who attended or are reading this summary, I want to walk you through what happened—not just what we did, but why it worked. Because here's the thing: this will look deceptively simple. That's the trap. TEAM-CBT is among the hardest therapeutic approaches to master, precisely because each step exists on multiple levels and requires you to change before your patients can change.
Let's dig in.
The Setup: Who Was Hiral?
Hiral is a mother of an almost-four-year-old son, living in a joint family in Gujarat, India, with her husband and in-laws. She's also studying to become a TEAM-CBT therapist herself, preparing for her Level 3 certification exam.
But beneath these roles, Hiral was suffering:
Feeling like a failure as a mother
Constant self-criticism and perfectionism
Trapped in a rigid family environment with little emotional support
Isolated from friends, her own parents, and the vibrant life she once had
Plagued by guilt, shame, anxiety, and hopelessness—all at 100%
Sound familiar? I'll bet many of you have worked with someone like Hiral. Or maybe you've been Hiral at some point in your life. I know I have.
T = Testing: The Emotional X-Ray
Before we even said hello to Hiral, she completed the Brief Mood Survey—David's ultra-reliable, ultra-short measures of depression, anxiety, anger, happiness, and relationship satisfaction right now, in this moment.
Her scores were staggering:
Depression: 11/20 (moderate, with "sad," "down," and "hopeless" all elevated)
Anxiety: 14/20 (moderate to severe)
Anger: 14/20 (same intensity as anxiety)
Happiness: 8/20 (very low)
Relationship Satisfaction: 10/30 (significant dissatisfaction with her husband)
Why this matters: Most therapists never measure how their patients feel. They think they know, but research shows therapist accuracy is around 3-10% on depression, suicidality, anxiety, and anger. Zero percent on suicidal urges. Think about that.
Without measurement, you're flying blind. With it, you have an emotional X-ray that shows you exactly where the patient is hurting—and later, exactly how much you've helped (or haven't).
TEAM-CBT Pearl: Testing isn't optional. It's the foundation. Measure at the start of every session, and measure again at the end. If you're scared to see the results, that's your ego talking.
E = Empathy: The Zero Technique
For the first 30-40 minutes, David and I did... nothing. Well, not nothing—we listened. We used the Five Secrets of Effective Communication:
Disarming Technique: Finding truth in what Hiral said
Thought Empathy: Paraphrasing her thoughts
Feeling Empathy: Acknowledging her emotions
Inquiry: Asking gentle questions to help her open up
Stroking: Conveying warmth and respect
But here's the key: we gave her nothing. No advice. No cheerleading. No problem-solving. We call this the Zero Technique—giving the patient nothing is actually giving them everything, because what they want most is to feel understood.
The Empathy Pitfall: DO NOT PREACH
Early in empathy, it's tempting to:
Problem-solve
Rescue
Educate
Advise
Cheerlead
Help
Resist. Your job is to go with your patient to the gates of hell and just be with them there.
Checking Our Empathy
After about 30 minutes, we asked Hiral to grade us on three dimensions (A, B, C, D, or F):
Thought Empathy: How well did we understand her negative thoughts?
Feeling Empathy: How well did we acknowledge her emotions?
Warmth & Acceptance: Did she feel cared about and accepted?
She gave us two A's and hesitated on the third. Why? She didn't feel we could truly understand her cultural context—the joint family system, the rigid in-laws, the isolation from her friends and parents. She felt alone even with us.
This was gold.
Instead of getting defensive, we leaned in. David shared his own experience living near in-laws with vastly different values. I shared my own struggles with perfectionism and parenting anxiety. Hiral started to cry—not from sadness, but from finally feeling seen.
TEAM-CBT Pearl: When you get a failing grade on empathy, celebrate. It's your chance to deepen the connection. Process the failure with your patient, and watch the breakthrough happen.

Inside the Therapy Room:
A Live TEAM CBT Session with Hiral
Part 1 of 2
Overview
What an incredible day. David and I had the privilege of working with Hiral, a young mother from India who was drowning in perfectionism, self-criticism, and the crushing weight of trying to be everything to everyone. Over the course of about two hours, we watched her transform from someone scoring 100% on depression, anxiety, guilt, shame, and hopelessness to feeling peaceful, relaxed, and genuinely joyful—with most scores dropping to zero.
This wasn't magic. It was TEAM-CBT done systematically, with measurement, genuine empathy, paradoxical agenda setting, and powerful cognitive techniques. And yes, Hiral did most of the heavy lifting herself once we got out of her way.
For those of you who attended or are reading this summary, I want to walk you through what happened—not just what we did, but why it worked. Because here's the thing: this will look deceptively simple. That's the trap. TEAM-CBT is among the hardest therapeutic approaches to master, precisely because each step exists on multiple levels and requires you to change before your patients can change.
Let's dig in.
The Setup: Who Was Hiral?
Hiral is a mother of an almost-four-year-old son, living in a joint family in Gujarat, India, with her husband and in-laws. She's also studying to become a TEAM-CBT therapist herself, preparing for her Level 3 certification exam.
But beneath these roles, Hiral was suffering:
Feeling like a failure as a mother
Constant self-criticism and perfectionism
Trapped in a rigid family environment with little emotional support
Isolated from friends, her own parents, and the vibrant life she once had
Plagued by guilt, shame, anxiety, and hopelessness—all at 100%
Sound familiar? I'll bet many of you have worked with someone like Hiral. Or maybe you've been Hiral at some point in your life. I know I have.
T = Testing: The Emotional X-Ray
Before we even said hello to Hiral, she completed the Brief Mood Survey—David's ultra-reliable, ultra-short measures of depression, anxiety, anger, happiness, and relationship satisfaction right now, in this moment.
Her scores were staggering:
Depression: 11/20 (moderate, with "sad," "down," and "hopeless" all elevated)
Anxiety: 14/20 (moderate to severe)
Anger: 14/20 (same intensity as anxiety)
Happiness: 8/20 (very low)
Relationship Satisfaction: 10/30 (significant dissatisfaction with her husband)
Why this matters: Most therapists never measure how their patients feel. They think they know, but research shows therapist accuracy is around 3-10% on depression, suicidality, anxiety, and anger. Zero percent on suicidal urges. Think about that.
Without measurement, you're flying blind. With it, you have an emotional X-ray that shows you exactly where the patient is hurting—and later, exactly how much you've helped (or haven't).
TEAM-CBT Pearl: Testing isn't optional. It's the foundation. Measure at the start of every session, and measure again at the end. If you're scared to see the results, that's your ego talking.
E = Empathy: The Zero Technique
For the first 30-40 minutes, David and I did... nothing. Well, not nothing—we listened. We used the Five Secrets of Effective Communication:
Disarming Technique: Finding truth in what Hiral said
Thought Empathy: Paraphrasing her thoughts
Feeling Empathy: Acknowledging her emotions
Inquiry: Asking gentle questions to help her open up
Stroking: Conveying warmth and respect
But here's the key: we gave her nothing. No advice. No cheerleading. No problem-solving. We call this the Zero Technique—giving the patient nothing is actually giving them everything, because what they want most is to feel understood.
The Empathy Pitfall: DO NOT PREACH
Early in empathy, it's tempting to:
Problem-solve
Rescue
Educate
Advise
Cheerlead
Help
Resist. Your job is to go with your patient to the gates of hell and just be with them there.
Checking Our Empathy
After about 30 minutes, we asked Hiral to grade us on three dimensions (A, B, C, D, or F):
Thought Empathy: How well did we understand her negative thoughts?
Feeling Empathy: How well did we acknowledge her emotions?
Warmth & Acceptance: Did she feel cared about and accepted?
She gave us two A's and hesitated on the third. Why? She didn't feel we could truly understand her cultural context—the joint family system, the rigid in-laws, the isolation from her friends and parents. She felt alone even with us.
This was gold.
Instead of getting defensive, we leaned in. David shared his own experience living near in-laws with vastly different values. I shared my own struggles with perfectionism and parenting anxiety. Hiral started to cry—not from sadness, but from finally feeling seen.
TEAM-CBT Pearl: When you get a failing grade on empathy, celebrate. It's your chance to deepen the connection. Process the failure with your patient, and watch the breakthrough happen.
Next week, Part 2, the exciting conclusion of the live session with Hiral!