The Biblical Mind

What do the Old Testament prophets really teach us, and why do so many Christians misunderstand their message? In this episode, Dru Johnson speaks with Dr. Heath Thomas about how to read biblical prophecy, understand prophetic literature, and rediscover the power of poetry in Scripture.
Rather than viewing the prophets primarily as predictors of the distant future or as sources of predictions about Jesus, Thomas explains how their messages are deeply rooted in Israel's past, particularly the foundational stories and teachings of Exodus and Deuteronomy. The prophets called God's people to remember their identity, recognize injustice, repent, and live according to God's purposes.
The conversation also explores how prophetic poetry functions as a form of argument. Through metaphor, imagery, repetition, and unexpected connections, books like Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Micah challenge readers to reconsider their understanding of God, humanity, ethics, and community. Thomas explains why biblical poetry communicates truth in ways that straightforward statements cannot, inviting readers into a transformative encounter with Scripture.
Finally, they consider the political philosophy of the prophets, including their visions of justice, flourishing communities, and the dangers of corrupt leadership and empire.
Discover how reading the prophets more carefully can reshape your understanding of the Bible and the world around you.
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Chapters:
00:00 Dr. Heath Thomas on prophets as philosophers
01:46 Why prophecy is more than predicting the future
04:39 How Exodus and Deuteronomy shape prophetic critique
07:38 Jeremiah reads the present through scripture
10:01 Jesus, authentic prophecy, and the suffering prophet
12:08 Why prophetic books feel strange and demand slow reading
15:16 How poetry argues through metaphor and imagery
19:00 Swords into plowshares and poetry’s vision of change
21:28 Biblical poetry as art that reshapes perception
25:20 Why poetic truth cannot be reduced to propositions
29:42 The prophets’ philosophy of knowledge, ethics, and community
33:00 The prophets’ political vision and critique of empire
34:31 Why modern readers underestimate poetry
36:58 Education, wisdom, and biblical reasoning at OBU

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How can psychology help pastors lead more effectively, strengthen Christian communities, and understand human behavior through the lens of Scripture? In this episode of The Biblical Mind Podcast, host Dru Johnson speaks with Dr. Erin Smith, a research psychologist, about the connections between psychological science, biblical wisdom, spiritual formation, and pastoral ministry.
Dr. Smith explores how psychological concepts such as diagnosis, personality, and identity can help people understand themselves while also creating limitations when labels become fixed identities. They discuss the Enneagram, the importance of believing in our capacity for growth, and how categorizing people can sometimes undermine meaningful relationships. The conversation also examines how Scripture encourages deeper, more nuanced thinking and how Christian educators can challenge students to develop beyond their current understanding.
The discussion turns to practical applications for churches, including evidence-based approaches to ministry, effective teaching, and the importance of defining desired outcomes before designing programs. Johnson and Smith also consider why Christian communities need to make space for lament, grief, and difficult emotions rather than focusing exclusively on happiness and celebration.
Finally, they explore the role of relationships in psychological health, the responsible use of scientific research, and what human finitude, growth, and created goodness mean for Christian theology.
Discover how psychology and Scripture can inform pastoral leadership, Christian discipleship, and healthier church communities.
Order Dr. Smith's book here: https://bhacademic.bhpublishinggroup.com/product/pastoring-the-whole-person
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Chapters:
00:00 Why pastors should consider psychological science
03:18 How psychological language can empower ministry
05:44 When diagnostic labels help - and when they limit
08:17 Validation, pain, and the risk of fixed identities
10:48 Why categories obscure human complexity
14:30 Scripture, continuum thinking, and cognitive development
19:32 Why meaningful learning often feels difficult
23:06 Designing ministry around its intended outcomes
26:26 Making room for lament and shared grief in worship
30:19 Relationships as psychology's through line
32:28 Taking psychological research seriously without overclaiming
37:22 Expertise, misconceptions, and learning in community
41:31 Human finitude and the meaning of being created good
44:12 Jesus, growth, and the difference between good and perfect
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In this episode of The Biblical Mind, host Dru Johnson welcomes biblical scholars David Beldman and Michael Rhodes to discuss their introductory textbook on the Pentateuch—the first five books of the Bible: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Together, they explore how Christians can read the Torah as Scripture and understand its continuing significance for faith and contemporary life.
The conversation examines why the Pentateuch is foundational to biblical theology, tracing themes of creation, covenant, the Exodus, priesthood, and the kingdom of God. Beldman and Rhodes explain how these books shape Christian understandings of Jesus, discipleship, and God's redemptive mission. They also address challenging Old Testament passages, including difficult laws, rituals, and narratives that can raise troubling questions for modern readers.
The discussion highlights the importance of understanding biblical genres, particularly how to interpret Old Testament law as wisdom and instruction rather than simply a set of rules to follow or discard. The scholars also explore theological interpretation, arguing that readers should allow the biblical text to speak on its own terms rather than reduce every passage to a simplistic explanation.
From economic justice and care for immigrants to creation and community responsibility, this episode reveals how studying the Torah can deepen Christian faith and illuminate the Bible's message for today.
Order the book here: https://bakerpublishinggroup.com/products/9781540961051_reading-the-pentateuch-as-christian-scripture
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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to the Book Project and Scholars
02:08 The Purpose and Audience of the Textbook
04:00 Approach to Teaching the Pentateuch
07:52 The Significance of the Torah in Biblical Narrative
12:44 The Paradox of Mercy and Judgment in Scripture
17:02 The Creation as Sacred Space in Genesis
22:10 The Nephilim and the Sons of God: Spiritual Beings in Genesis
45:33 The Akedah: The Binding of Isaac and Its Interpretations
53:14 Reflections on Reading the Pentateuch Theologically
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What happens when we pray? Does prayer actually move God to action, or does it simply change us? In this episode of The Biblical Mind, host Dru Johnson speaks with Dr. John Peckham, theologian and author of Why We Pray, about the biblical foundations of prayer, God's nature, and the relationship between human freedom and divine sovereignty.
Peckham challenges the idea that prayer is merely therapeutic, arguing that Scripture presents petitionary prayer as something that can make a real difference to God and how he acts in the world. He examines how traditional Christian theology, influenced by Greek philosophy, has shaped beliefs about God's timelessness, immutability, and impassibility. The conversation explores how a biblical, Hebraic framework can challenge these assumptions while remaining attentive to the broader Christian theological tradition.
Drawing on biblical passages from Daniel, Mark, and the Gospels, Peckham explains how prayer fits into a cosmic conflict between the kingdom of God and the forces of darkness. He explores human free will, God's covenant commitments, and why persistent prayer matters.
The discussion also addresses unanswered prayer, emphasizing that Christians should pray fervently without treating prayer as magic or blaming themselves when God does not grant a request. Discover how a deeper understanding of prayer can transform Christian faith and practice.
Buy the book here: https://bakeracademic.com/products/9781540966285_why-we-pray
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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction: The Purpose of Understanding Prayer
02:06 Common Views and Misconceptions About Prayer
03:59 Classical Theism and God's Immutable Nature
08:53 Scriptural Evidence for a Responsive God
12:15 God's Emotional Reactions and Biblical Depictions
20:09 Metaphysical Frameworks and Scripture's Philosophy
26:30 The Parable of the Persistent Widow and Prayer
30:57 God's Self-Limitation and the Cosmic Conflict
37:32 Implications for Prayer and Christian Life
44:44 Jesus' Prayer in Gethsemane and God's Will
46:11 Conclusion: Prayer, Sovereignty, and Trust
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What is Christian Zionism, and how should Christians think about Israel, Palestine, and the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict? In this episode of The Biblical Mind, Dru Johnson speaks with Rev. David Pileggi, rector of Christ Church in Jerusalem’s Old City, who brings 46 years of experience living in Israel to a complex conversation about Zionism, Christian Zionism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and the search for peace.
Pileggi explains why Christian Zionism is far more diverse than the term often suggests and challenges simplistic portrayals of both Christian Zionists and their critics. He discusses different forms of Jewish and Palestinian nationalism, the relationship between the State of Israel and Christianity, rising religious extremism, and the changing relationship between Jewish and Christian communities.
The conversation also explores how Christians can love and support the Jewish people while honestly confronting Israeli policies, advocate for Palestinians without demonizing Israelis, and pursue reconciliation without reducing the conflict to simple political or theological slogans.
Drawing on decades of experience in Jerusalem, Pileggi argues for greater biblical literacy, deeper understanding of Jewish and Palestinian experiences, humility among outsiders, and a willingness to embrace complexity. Ultimately, the episode asks Christians to consider how they can contribute to reconciliation rather than making an already difficult conflict worse.
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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Christian Zionisms and Guest Background
02:17 Understanding Zionism: Historical and Modern Perspectives
04:36 Nationalism in Israel and Its Global Contexts
06:55 Palestinian and Islamic Nationalisms Compared
07:06 Living in Jerusalem: Balancing Jewish and Palestinian Identities
08:04 Faith, Politics, and Interfaith Relations in Jerusalem
11:30 Diverse Communities and Models of Reconciliation
17:19 The Changing Dynamics of Jewish Identity and Walls in Jerusalem
23:21 Perceptions of Christianity and the State of Israel
27:43 The Role of Christian Support and Israeli Government Attitudes
35:44 Criticism of Christian Zionism and Its Misconceptions
43:25 A Radical Peace Plan for Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
44:55 The Role of Outsiders and Dialogue in Peacebuilding
55:33 The Future of Jerusalem and Interfaith Cooperation
01:00:28 The Diversity of Christian Zionist Beliefs and Interpretations
01:02:47 The Importance of Nuance and Patience in Understanding the Conflict

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