The Biblical Mind

What if theology isn’t something abstract but grows directly from the soil beneath our feet? In this episode, Dr. Cynthia Shafer-Elliott and Dr. Libby Backfish discuss their new book Grounded Theology, which argues that Israel’s theological reflections were deeply intertwined with daily life—especially as subsistence farmers in a land marked by both promise and struggle.

Drawing on archaeological discoveries from ancient households, the conversation explores how everyday artifacts like loom weights and ovens reveal Israelite religious practices not just in temples, but in kitchens. The land itself—its fertility, harshness, and rhythms—shaped covenantal faithfulness and theological imagination. They challenge modern listeners to reevaluate their own “floating theology” and rediscover the formative power of embodied life, land stewardship, and communal labor.

With humor, honesty, and deep insight, the guests call for a return to theology that is firmly grounded—in history, material reality, and the lived experience of Israel.

You can find Grounded Theology here:
https://bakerpublishinggroup.com/products/9781540962539_grounded-theology-in-the-hebrew-bible

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Chapters:
00:00 The Need for a New Textbook
03:34 Household Archaeology and Daily Life
10:31 The Role of Land in Theology
15:14 Connecting Ancient Practices to Modern Faith
23:35 Challenges in Theological Education
28:53 Conclusion and Reflections on Teaching

Why does Scripture so often portray women as central to God’s work of redemption—even in stories of deep dysfunction and failure? In this episode, Dr. Ingrid Faro, Old Testament scholar and interim president of Northern Seminary, joins Dru Johnson to explore her groundbreaking work in Redeeming Eden: How Women in the Bible Advance the Story of Salvation.

Dr. Faro shares how her personal journey through theological trauma, cultic church experiences, and academic discovery led her to reexamine Genesis 1–3 and the women of the Bible. She explains how Hebrew terms like ezer and tzelah (often translated “helper” and “rib”) have been misunderstood, how Eve’s story actually radiates hope, and how strategic female figures consistently propel salvation history forward.

The conversation also tackles misinterpretations of Genesis 3:16, the patterns of dysfunction and healing across the biblical narrative, and what the Bible really says about evil. This episode is a deep and hopeful reconsideration of gender, power, and goodness within the story of Scripture.

You can find Ingrid's "Redeeming Eden" here:
https://zondervanacademic.com/products/redeeming-eden

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Chapters:

00:00 The Importance of Women in the Bible
02:58 Challenges and Misunderstandings
05:52 Theological Journey and Discoveries
08:56 Women as Key Figures in Redemption History
12:04 Genesis and the Role of Women
14:53 Understanding the Image of God
18:10 Eve's Story and Redemption
20:58 The Dynamics of Desire and Power
23:56 Women and Men in Collaboration
26:55 The Nature of Evil in the Bible
29:57 Future Works and Closing Thoughts

Can you trust that viral “Bible connection” you just saw on TikTok?

In this episode, Matt Swale, author of "Scripture’s Use of Scripture in the Old Testament," joins Dr. Dru Johnson to discuss how biblical allusions really work—and why we need better instincts and better tools when interpreting Scripture. Swale wrote the book to help lay readers and undergraduates navigate the exciting (and sometimes overhyped) world of intertextuality: how one passage of Scripture evokes another, often subtly, and with profound rhetorical effect.

They explore his criteria for spotting allusions—rare terms, thematic coherence, and rhetorical fit—while affirming the emotional and spiritual value of hunting for connections. From Genesis 3 and Luke 24 to Judges 19 and Genesis 19, Swale shows how true allusions enrich our understanding, while false positives can mislead or confuse.

Swale also urges humility: “You want to make sure it’s real,” he says. “False positives are part of the process.” He encourages listeners to use tools like reference Bibles, read in community, and learn from scholars—while warning against treating academic access as priestly gatekeeping.

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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to the Conversation
01:00 Teaching Hermeneutics and Its Challenges
02:35 Illusions and Bad Practices in Interpretation
05:07 The Role of Social Media in Biblical Interpretation
07:45 Criteria for Identifying Illusions
11:55 The Importance of Rhetorical Analysis
16:07 The Need for Humility in Interpretation
20:00 Understanding Allusions in Scripture
24:01 The Nature of Illusions and Their Impact
28:03 Exploring Textual Connections
32:00 The Role of Community in Biblical Literacy
36:06 The Future of Biblical Literacy
40:03 Connecting Joseph and Daniel Stories
43:53 Rhetorical Connections in Genesis and Judges
46:57 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In this episode, Dru Johnson and Mike Tolliver reflect on the Center for Hebraic Thought’s evolving impact and expanding community. They revisit the promise made in 2025 to annually assess their work and celebrate how that commitment has borne fruit: from the flourishing Hebraic Thought Facebook community and its scripture reading groups, to the launch of a Michael Polanyi reading club. They announce the inaugural Bible First Conference Series, co-hosted with the American Bible Society, exploring how various Christian traditions engage politics through a biblical lens.

The conversation highlights recent standout books—many by past podcast guests—including Becoming God’s People by Carmen Imes, Leviticus on the Butcher’s Block by Phil Bray, and Grounded Theology by Cynthia Schaefer-Elliott and Libby Backfish. Dru and Mike also preview the new Tracing Biblical Thought book series, designed to bring scholarly insights to general audiences in accessible 100-page volumes.

The episode closes with a candid discussion about cultural headwinds—from Stoicism to Neoplatonism—and the Center’s commitment to reclaiming biblical categories for the church. They emphasize the need for translations and tools, like the Lexham English Bible and the NET Bible, that bring readers closer to the thought world of Scripture.

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Chapters:

00:00 Navigating Change: New Beginnings in 2026
03:09 The State of Hebraic Thought: Community and Events
05:57 Engaging Conversations: The Bible First Conference
08:58 Exploring New Literature: Book Series and Recent Releases
12:08 Anticipating Future Works: Upcoming Books and Insights
21:45 Exploring Biblical Forgiveness
22:42 Justice and Discipleship in Biblical Politics
23:32 Resources for Studying Scripture
24:43 The Value of Modern Translations
31:42 Challenges of Hebraic Thought in Modern Culture
36:27 Neoplatonism vs. Stoicism: Cultural Influences on Thought

What happens when an Australian butcher starts reading Leviticus—and finds it fun? In this unique episode, Dru Johnson speaks with Phil Bray, author of Leviticus on the Butcher’s Block, about how his day job cutting lambs and steaks helped him see the book of Leviticus in a whole new light. Phil traces his journey from casual Bible reader to Leviticus superfan, exploring how rituals, sacrifice, and atonement make far more sense when you’ve broken down hundreds of animals by hand.

Phil shares how ancient sacrificial rituals weren’t necessarily about violent death but about preparing food as a gift to God. The conversation dives into the Hebrew understanding of holiness, clean vs. unclean, and why God’s presence is depicted as a space without disease or death. Along the way, Phil and Dru reflect on Mary Douglas, Jewish slaughter laws, the power of smell and memory, and how the altar isn’t where the animal dies—but where it becomes holy.

Phil’s insights bring theology and meat science into one coherent (and hilarious) frame, showing why Leviticus is deeply spiritual, richly embodied, and more relevant than most Christians assume.

For Phil's YouTube Channel, go here:
https://www.youtube.com/@Leviticus_is_fun

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Chapters:
00:00 The Journey to Leviticus
03:19 Understanding Atonement and Sacrifice
06:19 The Butcher's Perspective on Rituals
09:15 Cultural Context of Sacrifice
12:32 The Nature of Death in Sacrifice
15:29 The Art of Kosher Slaughter
18:23 Leviticus: A Fun Exploration
21:27 The Meaning Beyond Death in Rituals
27:01 The Olfactory Experience of Worship
30:24 The Significance of Sacrifice in Ancient Cultures
34:07 Rethinking Atonement and Sacrifice
39:19 The Life of Jesus: More Than Just Death
45:06 Leviticus: A Guide to Drawing Near to God