PCC Local Time

When the Housing Crisis Comes to Town Hall
In this APMM series episode, Nancy Hess speaks with John Ernst, Borough Manager of Lansdale, and Sandra Zadell, Township Manager of Upper Gwynedd, about what the housing crisis looks like from the municipal manager’s desk.
The conversation begins with an encampment near the border of their two municipalities and moves into workforce housing, shelter, zoning, public opposition, state legislation, and the limits of what local government can do alone. John and Sandra offer a candid look at how housing pressure shows up in parks, public meetings, police calls, comprehensive plans, and the lives of people trying to stay housed.
Guests
John Ernst
Borough Manager, Lansdale Borough, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania
Sandra Brookley Zadell
Township Manager, Upper Gwynedd Township, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania
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APMM
An advocate for municipal management and professional assistance in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
The Association for Pennsylvania Municipal Management (APMM) is an organization of professional township, borough, city, home-rule and county managers, administrators and COG directors. APMM is dedicated to the promotion of professional and effective local government management of Pennsylvania.
Quotes
“It might be more affordable — but affordable to who?” - John Ernst
“As a municipal manager, I would never advocate for any state legislation that takes away local control... I strongly believe that towns should be able to govern. That's what our Commonwealth was founded upon." - Sandra Zadell
“These are the small things that make a culture. This is what makes a community. It’s a way to show up for humanity, not a political leaning. That is just a human desire.” - Nancy Hess
Mentioned in the Episode:
Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City, by Matthew Desmond
Recommended by Sandra. The book won the 2017 Pulitzer Prize for General Nonfiction and examines eviction as both a consequence and a cause of poverty.
Upper Gwynedd Planning Commission presentation
Background resource on the township’s planning work and the Pennbrook Parkway affordable housing development.
Low-Income Housing Tax Credit Program (LIHCP)
The federal tax credit program discussed by Sandra in connection with the Walters Group workforce housing development.
Walters Group
The New Jersey-based developer working with Upper Gwynedd on the proposed workforce housing development.
Nomadland
The film Nancy was trying to recall during the conversation. It is a narrative feature film starring Frances McDormand, not a documentary. It won Best Picture at the 2021 Academy Awards and was inspired by Jessica Bruder’s nonfiction book, Nomadland: Surviving America in the Twenty-First Century.
Kayleigh Silver, LSW
Administrator for Montgomery County’s Office of Housing and Community Development. Nancy spoke with Kayleigh as part of her background preparation for this episode.
Pennsylvania zoning and permitting context
The episode refers to recent reporting on how zoning, permitting, local regulation, and construction costs affect homebuilding in Pennsylvania.
Pennsylvania House Bill 2186: Accessory Dwelling Units
HB 2186 passed the Pennsylvania House on June 1, 2026, by a vote of 139–62. As of July 10, 2026, it had been referred to the Senate Urban Affairs & Housing Committee. The bill would require municipalities to allow accessory dwelling units by right in areas where single-family detached homes are permitted, while allowing some local standards related to safety and neighborhood compatibility.
New Jersey affordable housing model
Sandra references the New Jersey framework shaped by the Mount Laurel doctrine and the Fair Housing Act, which creates municipal fair-share obligations for affordable housing. The guests compare that approach with Pennsylvania’s stronger tradition of local control.

As producer and publisher here at MuniSquare on Substack, today’s post is hard to write… we have decided to bring the Generation on the Rise podcast to a close, at least for now. Dave, Brandon and Nancy start off with a little light bantor today before making their way to the core message which concerns the absence of Eden.
This will not affect PCC Local Time podcast recordings or our MuniSquare podcast stream. Please subscribe to receive full content from our site that focuses on local government and public service!
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Opening banter and music talk
03:00 Brandon on ICMA, APMM and the conference season
03:53 Nancy introduces the final episode
04:20 Decision to close this chapter of Generation on the Rise
05:05 Eden’s departure and what is publicly known
06:15 Why the public testimony required a response
07:10 What we know, what we do not know
07:50 Employee voice, risk and organizational recovery
08:20 Building in public and closing this chapter
08:54 Brandon reflects on the purpose of the podcast
09:35 Conversations people need but do not get formal training for
10:30 The value of candid professional dialogue
11:20 Continuing the conversation beyond the podcast
12:01 Dave reflects on Eden, Middletown and next chapters
13:00 Dave’s leadership lesson: people need to want to follow you
14:15 Authenticity, social intelligence and emotional intelligence
15:40 The danger of trying to be someone you are not
16:50 Mistakes, public judgment and professional recovery
18:10 Learning, growth and second chances in leadership
19:10 Investing in employees, boards and communities
19:45 Looking back on the podcast’s purpose and tone
21:00 Appreciation for listeners and future collaborations
21:47 Nancy reflects on Dave and Brandon’s growth
22:45 Gratitude, community and what comes next
23:40 Final goodbye and “take care of each other”
24:05 Closing banter and authenticity of the show
25:11 Nancy’s final words
25:37 Dave and Brandon close the episode

What does a mature emergency management program look like before a community is tested? In this 2026 APMM series episode of PCC Local Time, Nancy Hess talks with Shawn Kauffman, Fire Director for the Centre Region Council of Governments and former Emergency Management Coordinator, about the human infrastructure behind effective emergency response.
Shawn shares what he has learned over 40 years in emergency services. The conversation explores the importance of local knowledge, technical skill, regional coordination, relationships with county and state partners, and the ability to bring people together across silos before a crisis occurs. It is a practical and hopeful conversation for local government managers, elected officials, emergency service leaders, and volunteers who want to understand where this field is headed
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 — Introducing Shawn Kauffman and the Centre Region model
01:40 — What mature emergency management looks like
02:30 — From silos to coordination
04:00 — Building relationships before the emergency
05:20 — Local knowledge versus technical training
07:00 — Why county relationships matter in Pennsylvania
08:40 — Regionalization as a practical solution
11:00 — Volunteer capacity and looking beyond municipal borders
12:20 — No-notice events and what keeps emergency managers up at night
15:00 — The infrastructure of relationships
16:00 — What silos look like in real life
18:00 — Who makes a good emergency management coordinator?
19:30 — Falling in love with emergency management
20:20 — Who needs to be at the table?
22:10 — Lessons from major events
23:50 — Creating a “community within a community”
25:00 — Leadership, ego, and resistance
26:40 — COVID and the loss of in-person cohesion
29:00 — Working with state police and large institutions
30:30 — Large employers, institutions, and local emergency planning
32:20 — The future of emergency management
33:40 — The next emergency manager
34:40 — AI, forecasting, and the human factor
36:00 — Emergency management as a career path
37:20 — Shawn’s own path into the work
38:00 — Closing reflections

"I need help."
There are conversations in local government that change how you think about leadership. This is one of them. In this episode of PCC Local Time, I sit down with Chief David Lash of Northern York County Regional Police and Chief Dave Steffen, retired chief of Northern Lancaster County Regional Police, to talk about how the idea of wellness actually converts to meaningful outcomes inside a police agency.
Link to an earlier episode with Chief David Steffen on Regional Policing
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Opening: why wellness and policing are difficult to connect
02:00 A 25-year relationship: how it began
05:30 The shift in policing culture around wellness
10:00 February 2025: the UPMC shooting
13:30 Immediate response and the role of support systems
17:30 Continuity of care and leadership perspective
19:30 September 2025: the second critical incident
22:30 “Two minutes of hell”: what happened and what followed
24:30 Leadership under pressure and the role of relationships
26:30 The three-word call: “I need help”
28:30 Reframing wellness as culture, not program
29:30 Reducing stigma and normalizing support
31:00 Moving from reactive to proactive wellness
32:30 Total wellness: beyond mental health
34:00 Building access: systems, providers, and trust
36:30 Wellness and use of force: a possible connection
38:00 Mindfulness and officer buy-in
39:00 Feeling valued as a core metric
40:30 Resistance, generational differences, and adaptation
44:30 Extending wellness into the community
46:30 Budgeting for wellness as essential, not optional
48:00 Culture shift: from external image to internal strength
49:30 Closing reflections: what can be carried forward

Two municipal managers introduced host Nancy to the same book: Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara. Chris Garges and Joe Hogarth (also Chief of Police) join her to unpack what a four-star Manhattan restaurant can teach local government.
Through a municipal lens, they talk about the front of the house and the back of the house, how "toiling in obscurity" is part of our success, why imitating others is a bad idea, and what Joe calls the nobility of the work.
This PCC Local Time podcast episode has been created in partnership with APMM - the Association of Pennsylvania Municipal Management.
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Opening: what can a restaurant teach local government?
00:02 How Joe and Chris found the book
00:05 Nancy’s restaurant story and the customer experience lens
00:07 Silos, roles, and balancing departments
00:09 Real teamwork across public works, police, and codes
00:11 Volunteer work and building connection across staff
00:13 Why stories matter in shaping culture
00:16 Purpose, community, and significance in public service
00:20 Chris on marathon mindset and mental toughness
00:22 Why collaboration meets resistance
00:23 Vulnerability and the myth of the all-knowing leader
00:26 Humility, learning, and asking better questions
00:27 Learn from others, but do not imitate blindly
00:29 Hierarchy, feedback, and speaking honestly
00:31 Hospitality as a daily dialogue
00:33 Younger employees and visible community impact
00:34 What leaders do with resistant employees
00:36 Encouraging people when the work never feels finished
00:38 One takeaway for managers
00:39 Nobility, purpose, and the meaning of service
00:41 Final story: when someone thanks an officer for arresting them