The Psychedelic Podcast

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Dr. Chandra Estelle Khalifian, a clinical psychologist, relationship researcher, and co-founder of Enamory, about the intersection of attachment science, couples therapy, and psychedelic-assisted healing.
Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-357/?ref=278 
Drawing from her work in ketamine-assisted couple therapy and MDMA research, Chandra explores how relationships are shaped by nervous system regulation, attachment wounds, and patterns developed long before adulthood.
The conversation examines how ketamine and MDMA can help couples move through rigidity, betrayal, grief, and disconnection by creating greater emotional openness and flexibility. Paul and Chandra also dive into conscious uncoupling, relational growth, community, and the deeper distinction between love as a feeling versus love as a practice.
Chandra Khalifian, Ph.D. is a clinical psychologist, researcher, and educator specializing in psychedelic-assisted couple therapy. She co-founded Enamory, alongside Dr. Kayla Knopp, a private practice clinic, training institute, and research foundation based in San Diego, California. Their work focuses on ketamine-assisted couple therapy, including clinical data collection and therapist training programs designed to support practitioners integrating psychedelic-assisted couple therapy into their practices. Chandra's work bridges attachment science, nervous system regulation, relationship psychology, and psychedelic medicine.
Highlights:
How Attachment Shapes Adult Relationships
Ketamine for Breaking Relational Rigidity
Why Secure Attachment Feels Safe
MDMA for Betrayal & Repair
Conscious Uncoupling Without Hatred
Why Love Alone Isn't Enough
Healing Grief Through Psychedelic Therapy
Couples Therapy as Nervous System Work
Episode Links:
Enamory Website
Enamory Couples KAP Training
Enamory on Instagram
Dr. Chandra on Instagram
Episode Sponsors:
The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.
Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Dr. Lauren Macdonald, a clinical trial physician and psychedelic therapist, about the evolving role of community in psychedelic-assisted therapy.
Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-356/?ref=278 
Lauren shares insights from her work at Imperial College London, where she contributed to research on psilocybin for anorexia and fibromyalgia, as well as DMT for treatment-resistant depression. She reflects on the limitations of purely individual therapeutic models and explores how group-based approaches can foster deeper healing through connection, shared experience, and what she describes as communitas.
The conversation also touches on the contrast between clinical and ceremonial settings, the role of group dynamics in emotional processing, and the challenges of access and affordability as psychedelic therapy expands.
Dr. Lauren Macdonald has a background in psychiatry, psychedelic-assisted therapy, and group retreat facilitation, working at the intersection of science, soul, and spirit. At the Centre for Psychedelic Research at Imperial College London, she has served as a clinical trial doctor and psychedelic therapist on studies exploring psilocybin for anorexia and fibromyalgia, and DMT for treatment-resistant depression.
Highlights:
Psilocybin therapy in clinical research
Limits of individual therapy models
Why group work deepens healing
Communitas and shared experience
Bridging science and spirituality
Psychedelics in palliative care
Relational safety in altered states
Episode Links:
Lauren Macdonald's Website
The Reconnection: Women's Psilocybin and Somatic Retreats
Bridging Worlds: 6-Month Training
Episode Sponsors:
The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.
Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with David Adam Burns, a transformational coach, artist, and founder of The Mysteries, about what may be missing from today's psychedelic conversation.
Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-355/?ref=278 
David challenges the emphasis on insight in psychedelic work, suggesting that deeper transformation comes through presence, healing, and embodied evolution. He outlines a framework for healing through integration, purification, and emotional "thawing," and explains why presence may be the most important skill for navigating psychedelic experiences.
They also explore myth and storytelling as tools for collective growth, including David's work with The Mysteries and Earthsong, a retelling of the Persephone myth, and discuss the role of community, leadership, and stewardship in shaping the future of psychedelics.
David Adam Burns is a transformational coach, artist, and facilitator devoted to helping human beings remember who they are. Since 2015, he has guided leaders through deep personal transformation in his one-on-one practice and co-founded The Mysteries, an artists' collective dedicated to expressing the ineffable through myth and performance.
Highlights:
Why insight is often overvalued
Healing as integration, purification, and thawing
Presence as the core psychedelic skill
Story and myth as collective technologies
The role of community in transformation
Why leadership determines long-term outcomes
Episode Links:
David Adam Burns Website
The Mysteries / Earthsong
David on LinkedIn
Episode Sponsors:
The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.
Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Heather Smith, founder of The Moxie School and a certified Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapist, about the intersection of parts work and psychedelic healing.
Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-354/?ref=278 
Heather explains how IFS offers a practical framework for working with what arises during psychedelic experiences. She describes IFS as an approach that helps people stay present with different parts of themselves, especially when difficult or unexpected material comes up.
The conversation explores how psychedelic experiences can bring awareness to underlying patterns and past experiences, and why that awareness on its own often doesn't lead to lasting change.
They also discuss common misconceptions about combining IFS with psychedelics, the role of preparation and integration, and how working directly with parts supports more stable change over time.
Highlights:
Misconceptions about IFS in psychedelic work
IFS as a mindset, not a method
How psychedelics reveal internal parts
Why insight alone isn't enough
The unburdening process in healing
Working with fear and difficult experiences
Preparation and integration as core skills
Practitioner integrity and embodied practice
Heather Smith is a visionary in the field of psychedelic healing, blending Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy with expanded states of consciousness to catalyze deep transformation. A Certified IFS therapist, she has completed Levels 1–3 of training and served as a Program Assistant multiple times.
She is the founder of The Moxie School®, where she trains psychedelic facilitators in IFS-informed approaches and supports both personal and professional development through immersive training and retreat experiences.
Episode Links:
The Moxie School
How to Journey: An IFS Field Guide to Psychedelic Journeys
Episode Sponsors:
The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.
Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Kathryn L. Tucker, J.D., a leading civil rights attorney and advocate for end-of-life autonomy, about the legal effort to expand access to psilocybin-assisted therapy for patients facing serious illness.
Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-353/?ref=278 
Kathryn shares how decades of work in right-to-die litigation led her to recognize a critical gap in palliative care, addressing psychological and existential suffering at the end of life. Drawing from emerging clinical research, she explains why psilocybin may offer meaningful relief for anxiety, depression, and distress in terminal patients.
The conversation explores the legal pathways being pursued to make this treatment accessible, including Right to Try laws, federal litigation with the DEA, and efforts to reschedule psilocybin. Kathryn also reflects on the broader cultural and ethical implications of allowing individuals greater choice in how they approach death.
Kathryn L. Tucker, JD, is a nationally recognized leader in advancing improved care for seriously ill and dying patients. She has held leadership roles across multiple nonprofit organizations, including the National Psychedelics Association, the End of Life Liberty Project, and Compassion & Choices. Tucker has litigated landmark cases before the U.S. Supreme Court, including Washington v. Glucksberg and Vacco v. Quill, and has played a key role in both end-of-life litigation and psychedelic policy advocacy.
Highlights:
Right to Try laws explained
Psilocybin as investigational medicine
DEA barriers to patient access
Litigation strategies for psychedelic access
Rescheduling psilocybin efforts
Palliative care gaps in mental suffering
Legal vs underground psychedelic
Episode Links:
National Psychedelics Association
Kathryn's LinkedIn 
Episode Sponsors:
The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.
Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.