AND/BOTH Podcast - Real Conversations, Shared Experiences, and the Community You've Been Missing

Kristin Smith has spent 20 years helping new families survive the hardest weeks of their lives. As the founder of Well Supported Family — a team of over 200 postpartum doulas, newborn care specialists, and nurses operating across 12 states — she’s built the modern village that most families desperately need and almost nobody has access to.
Now she has a two-month-old of her own. An adopted son she got the call about while she was standing at an elephant orphanage in Kenya. He came home through the NICU. And for the first time, she’s on the parent side of everything she’s built — learning what it feels like to need the very support she’s spent two decades providing.
In this conversation, Ashley and Kristin talk about the postpartum care gap, the different paths to parenthood, what actually happens in those first nights home, and what it looks like to practice exactly what you preach.
In This Episode
How Kristin started — a postpartum doula at 19 after having her daughter with almost no support
Growing Well Supported Family from a private practice to a team of 200+ across 12 states
Why postpartum care in the US is so inadequate — and what it would take to fix it
What in-home newborn care actually looks like and how it’s tailored to each family
The RV team, the travel team, and how they reach families in almost every state
NICU babies coming home — the adjustment nobody prepares families for
The call from Kenya — a failed adoption, four days into a trip, at an elephant orphanage
Three rounds of IVF and what that experience gave her as a provider
Being on the parent side for the first time — and convincing herself her own baby was broken
Why adopted babies don’t get the postpartum support they need — and the rude awakening that followed
The philosophy at the heart of her work: build children into your life, not your life around them
What’s next — expanding into mental health support and more states

Quotes From This Episode

“You can have a wound inside your body the size of a basketball, and it was attached. Just because nobody sees it doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt.”
— Kristin Smith
“I don’t believe parents should build their life around children. I believe they should build children into their lives.”
— Kristin Smith
“I was at the elephant orphanage when this baby was born. That feels so symbolic.”
— Kristin Smith
“I was convinced he was broken. I’m a professional. What is he doing? And then someone said, he was four weeks early. You’re expecting a lot right now.”
— Kristin Smith
“It’s not just giving them the break they need — it’s helping them learn to build a life with their child.”
— Kristin Smith

Resources & Links
Well Supported Family: wellsupportedfamily.com
Baby Care Classes: available via wellsupportedfamily.com
Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube: @wellsupportedfamily
Find Kristin on Facebook: Kristin Lee

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.care
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Sam Kelly was making a Saturday morning to-do list for her kids on a Friday night when it hit her. She’d just spent a year teaching her husband not to rely on her to notice what needed to be done — and here she was, about to hand her children the same broken script. She dropped the marker, went to bed, and the next morning introduced her family to Notice and Do.
Two years later she has a book deal with Harper Collins, a viral online platform, and a method that’s helping burned-out mothers around the world finally get their families off the sidelines. In this conversation, Ashley and Sam talk about the mental load, the burnout loop, intergenerational cycle-breaking, and what it actually looks like to teach kids — including neurodivergent ones — to be a real part of the family team.
In This Episode
The Friday night moment that sparked the Notice and Do method
What Notice and Do actually is — and how it differs from a chore chart
The Big Three — Sam’s daily structure for kids of any age or ability
The learning ladder — why perfection isn’t the point and every rung counts
Teaching neurodivergent kids to notice — and why it works even when nothing else has
The five cycle-breaking conversations — age-appropriate language for mental load, burnout, and equity
Why rage cleaning is never really about the messy kitchen
The burnout loop — quarterly mommy meltdowns, putting your head down, and repeat
Why self care isn’t enough — and why supportive care needs to be the new conversation
What it’s like to teach an adult partner versus teaching kids — and why those are completely separate things
The full circle moment: how Notice and Do liberated Sam enough to write the book
How to approach this when your kids just don’t care — and why that’s actually fine
What she hopes the next generation looks like when this work takes hold

Quotes From This Episode
“Mental load is a whole family issue. Whole family issues require whole family solutions.”
— Sam Kelly
“Supportive care needs to be the new self care. Who is caring for the mom?”
— Sam Kelly
“It’s not about the messy kitchen. It’s about what that mess is triggering underneath — feeling taken for granted, feeling lonely, feeling unseen.”
— Sam Kelly
“This pain ends with us. This ends here and now.”
— Sam Kelly
“Notice and Do liberated me enough to create this book. And if it can liberate me at that level, it can liberate anyone.”
— Sam Kelly

Resources & Links
Notice and Do (Harper Collins, pre-order now)
Instagram: @samkelly_world
Audio course: available via Sam’s Instagram link
Request at your local library and indie bookstore

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.app
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Amanda Timonere spent a decade at the top of the clinical world — chief clinical officer of a multi-state mental health and substance use treatment center — before becoming a mom and realizing she wanted to do something different. Not because she couldn’t do the job. Because she was missing time with her kids and because she saw a gap in care for mothers that she was uniquely positioned to fill.
Now she runs Zenful Mamas, a private practice and coaching platform built around perinatal mental health and the concept of matrescence — the neurological and psychological transformation of becoming a mother. In this conversation, Ashley and Amanda talk about what that transformation actually looks like, why so many women arrive at motherhood completely unprepared for it, and what it means to break the cycle of the blueprint you didn’t know you were carrying.
In This Episode
What matrescence is — and why most mothers have never heard of it
The neurological reality of what happens to our brains when we become parents
How Amanda’s own anxiety through pregnancy and postpartum led her to this work
Walking into motherhood with a generational blueprint you don’t know exists
Why women — especially high-achieving women — resist asking for help
The difference between therapy and coaching, and how Amanda decides which one a client actually needs
Her 12-week program “Rewrite Before You Repeat” — and what it’s designed to do
Navigating the relationship between new parents and grandparents when parenting philosophies clash
Why the women who appear to have it all together either have a lot of help or aren’t telling the whole story
The AI dependency conversation — what it means for mental health support and clinical training
Solo parenting a two and four year old while running a practice — what that actually looks like
Her vision for Zenful Mamas as a hub for maternal mental health — therapy, coaching, breathwork, Reiki, and more

Quotes From This Episode
“We’re walking into motherhood with a blueprint that we don’t even know exists.”
— Amanda Timonere
“It’s not a matter of weak or strong. There is a neurological change in our mind that’s happening and it’s so far beyond our control.”
— Amanda Timonere
“Preventative care is the best care.”
— Amanda Timonere
“Having kids is like holding up a mirror to yourself. It’s like everything is exposed and we’re figuring it out.”
— Amanda Timonere
“There’s no prize at the end of the day for doing it all perfectly. There’s never going to be a medal ceremony and someone will be the valedictorian of motherhood.”
— Ashley Blackington

Resources & Links
Zenful Mamas: zenfulMamas.com
Instagram: @zenful_mamas
Zenful Mamas Inner Circle — low-commitment monthly groups for nervous system regulation
12-week coaching program: Rewrite Before You Repeat

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.app
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Betsy Cornwell saw a gap — artist residencies she qualified for but couldn’t access as a single parent — and instead of waiting for someone else to fill it, she built something herself. She crowdfunded the purchase of a historic 1906 knitting factory on the west coast of Ireland, turned it into a residency and retreat space for other single parent artists, and then wrote a memoir about how all of it happened.
In this conversation, Ashley and Betsy talk about coming out of an abusive marriage, what it means to write honestly about hard things as a mother, the gap between the writing life you imagine and the one you actually have, and why the accomplishment Betsy is most proud of isn’t her New York Times bestseller or her university teaching post — it’s being a single mom.
In This Episode
How Betsy became a single parent and why she found herself proud to be one almost immediately
The gap she identified — artist residencies she qualified for but couldn’t access because of caretaking logistics and finances
The castle that didn’t work out, the pivot to the knitting factory, and why this place ended up being a better fit
What crowdfunding a house actually looked like — including the 2am moment when everything came down to the wire
Why she gives residency recipients a cash childcare stipend rather than on-site childcare — and what that trust means
The Smith College Friday Tea tradition and the online community that supported her through the most isolated stretch of her life
Writing about emotional abuse — “he never hit me” — and why that makes some readers deeply uncomfortable
The ethics of writing a memoir as a parent: how she handled writing about her son and his father
Why mother’s silence is not the solution to the complexity of women telling their stories
Writing Ring of Salt on the edge of a bathtub — and what that says about the art you can make in the life you have
Raising her son in an Irish-speaking region of Ireland — and what she’s observed about life in Ireland versus the US
The “keep it alive” approach to creative practice for caregivers
What she hopes happens when someone comes to the Old Knitting Factory and gets to breathe for the first time

Quotes From This Episode
“The accomplishment I’m most proud of is being a single mom. And I think that will always be true.”
— Betsy Cornwell
“I don’t think the brunt of all that complexity should be borne through the simple solution of mother’s silence. That is not right to me.”
— Betsy Cornwell
“The book that I could write is the book that I could write in the life that I have.”
— Betsy Cornwell
“Have you kept your art practice alive today? It’s just about keeping it alive.”
— Betsy Cornwell
“We’re kicking the bar down the road and wondering why our toe hurts.”
— Ashley Blackington
Resources & Links
Ring of Salt (memoir): available at any bookstore or via oldknittingfactory.com
Old Knitting Factory: oldknittingfactory.com
Support the residency on Patreon
All books including YA novels: betsycornwell.com
Friday Tea on Substack: find Betsy on Substack

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.app
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Laura Navaquin spent nearly 20 years in corporate America before one Wednesday meeting pushed her over the edge. Her husband said “just quit, we’ll figure it out.” She did, and then spent the next few weeks wondering if she’d made a catastrophic mistake before realizing she was exactly where she was supposed to be.
Today Laura and her husband run four businesses rooted in real estate — a consulting practice, a wholesaling company, a framework for real estate agents called Beyond Commissions, and a contracting business — while raising four kids, three of whom are three and under. In this conversation, Ashley and Laura talk about the messy, non-linear reality of building something from scratch while staying present for the people who matter most.
In This Episode
Why Laura left corporate after 20 years — it wasn’t the job, it was losing control of her own schedule
The Wednesday she quit on impulse and the fear that followed immediately after
How she and her husband grew their real estate portfolio from four doors to twenty-one in under two years
Why they scaled too fast, stepped back, and what that taught them about sustainable growth
Creative financing — what it is and how it changed what was possible for them
How four businesses became interconnected rather than overwhelming
Beyond Commissions — the real estate agent framework they spent 2025 building and launched in January
The entrepreneur catch-22: needing help, hiring help, and ending up doing it yourself anyway
How they navigate four kids and four businesses — shared office, shared calendar, shared flexibility
Getting kids involved in the business in age-appropriate ways
Why the nine-year-old’s salsa company ambitions are being taken seriously
The shift in how we talk about money, investing, and entrepreneurship with the next generation
Where Laura sees things going — development, fundraising, and building on a larger scale

Quotes From This Episode
“Some weeks I take off entirely, or I work weekends and late nights — but I’m still able to work that schedule around my life.”
— Laura Navaquin
“Being able to have that flexibility and creativity with the way you do things allows you to pivot and still keep that business alive.”
— Laura Navaquin
“When you pressure test the system, then you start to pivot. Then you start to say, what is a reasonable ask for me?”
— Ashley Blackington
“I never saw myself in real estate in any capacity — but to see where we are nowadays and all the future plans that we’re making. It’s somewhat comical, but in all the best ways.”
— Laura Navaquin
“Non-traditional is becoming traditional.”
— Ashley Blackington
Find Laura
LinkedIn & Instagram: @LauraNavaquin
Website: lauranavaqquin.com
Beyond Commissions: beyondcommissions.io

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.app
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/