AND/BOTH Podcast - Real Conversations, Shared Experiences, and the Community You've Been Missing

Libby Ward built one of the internet’s most recognizable platforms for honest motherhood, and she did it by saying the things most moms were too afraid to say out loud. Now she’s put it all in a book: Motherhood: On Losing My Mind and Finding Myself, published by Crown.
In this co-hosted episode, Ashley and Erin sit down with Libby to trace the full arc, from the small town church community where motherhood was put on a pedestal, to the postpartum rage that finally broke her open, to the sociology class that reframed everything, to going viral on TikTok during a pandemic, to writing a book for Crown that she nearly wrote as someone else entirely.
It’s a conversation about what happens when women stop doing everything for everyone else and start asking who they actually are, and why that question so often doesn’t get asked until something breaks.
In This Episode
Who Libby was before TikTok- a 26-year-old in a conservative church community trying to be every kind of mom at once
How her second child’s higher needs broke the plate-spinning and sent her to therapy for the first time
Why her postpartum depression showed up as rage, not sadness and why that made it harder to recognize and name
The shame spiral of “what is wrong with me” and the therapy session that cracked it open
The sociology of sex and gender class that introduced her to the mental load, default parenting, and feminism
Finding TikTok during the pandemic and posting as a form of dissociation, not really believing anyone would find her
The moment she stopped making humor content and decided she didn’t want to joke about things that were crushing her soul
Going no contact with her mom and how that coincided with the book deal coming through
The writing process: imposter syndrome, a pivot away from research-heavy writing, and learning to trust her own storytelling
Why she didn’t lose herself in motherhood, she never found herself before it
Doing it guilty: why waiting to feel ready or unashamed means never changing anything
What “honest motherhood” actually means and why it starts internally, not out loud

Quotes From This Episode:
“I didn’t lose myself in motherhood. I actually never found myself or knew myself when I was younger. Motherhood was the catalyst to help me find the self I never knew before motherhood even began.”
— Libby Ward
“It’s not that I’m exhausted because I’m not enough. It’s that the load is too much for any one person. That shift is so important.”
— Libby Ward
“How do you get rid of the guilt and shame? You just do it guilty. You do it feeling a little bit ashamed. And then you’re retraining your brain — actually, we survived. Actually, it’s okay.”
— Libby Ward
“I am so tired of women being the butt end of jokes. I no longer want to joke about the things that are crushing my soul.”
— Libby Ward
“You deserve to be well just for the mere fact that you’re a person who deserves to be well. Your kids just happen to benefit from that.”
— Libby Ward

About the Book
Motherhood: On Losing My Mind and Finding Myself by Libby Ward is available now wherever books are sold — Amazon, Indigo, and most major retailers.

Find Libby
Website: libbyward.com
Instagram: @libbyward
TikTok: @libbywardofficial

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.app
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

What does it mean to break a cycle when you’re still inside it? Michelle Gibson is a psychotherapist, CEO of Gibson and Associates and the Nest Collective, and a mom of one, and she has spent her career helping people find language for experiences they were never taught to name.
In this conversation, Michelle and Ashley cover a lot of ground: childhood trauma and the path into psychotherapy, the complicated terrain of parent estrangement, why adverse childhood experiences are disproportionately common in entrepreneurs, and what it looks like to lead a business and a family, from a place of genuine self-connection rather than survival mode.
It’s an honest, warm, and unexpectedly funny conversation about doing the work while also just trying to get dinner on the table.

In This Episode
How Michelle’s childhood (alcoholism, trauma, adverse childhood experiences) led her to psychotherapy
The magnetic effect of finding language for what you’ve been through
Why social-emotional learning in schools is changing what middle school looks like for kids today
Reparenting yourself while parenting someone else — and the double labor that involves
The rise of estrangement from parents and what’s driving it
Michelle shares her own experience estranging from her father — and why having a daughter changed the calculation
Ashley shares her own experience with estrangement
Why entrepreneurs so often come from hard childhoods — grit as a survival response
The moment Michelle looked up from years of grind and realized she’d been in survival mode her whole life
What it means to lead from a heart-led place versus a fear-led one
The privilege of support — naming it honestly so other parents don’t compare their back end to someone else’s front end
“Your parents’ ceiling is your floor” — and how Michelle thinks about expanding that for her daughter

Resources & Links
Gibson and Associates: gibsoncounselling.ca
The Nest Collective: thenestcollective.ca
Email: [email protected] or [email protected]
Find Michelle on LinkedIn

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.app
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

What happens when two of the biggest life transitions collide at exactly the same time? For grief coach Sarah Kagan, that meant losing her mother at six months pregnant and learning to live through loss while preparing to bring a new life into the world.
Sarah is a mother to two young kids, a former corporate professional who walked away from her career to follow a calling, and someone who is building a platform to change the way we talk about grief, especially in the workplace.
In this conversation, Ashley and Sarah dig into what it really means to grieve in real time, why the pressure to “be strong” is one of the most isolating things we do to each other, and what it looks like to hold loss and love at the same time, without having to choose between them.
In This Episode
What it means to be a “motherless mother” and why grief hits differently once you’re a parent
The moment at her mother’s Shiva that taught Sarah everything about how we avoid grief
Why “you’re so brave” and “at least she’s not suffering” do more harm than good
The martyrdom trap — and how stepping out of it changed everything for Sarah
The statistic that 51% of people leave their jobs within a year of a major loss
How Sarah rebuilt her work life after leaving corporate — no 9-to-5, Wednesdays for arts and crafts, out by 4pm
Why grief needs a better spokesperson (and what menopause got right)
The problem with bereavement leave policies that tell you who you’re allowed to mourn
Ashley opens up about losing her father to suicide and the shame layered on top of certain kinds of loss
How to slow down after caregiving — and why your body will eventually make you
Sarah’s grief workbook and creative morning kits: where does the love go when someone dies?

Quotes From This Episode
“There’s so much pressure to cover up or perform or just show up and be like, yeah, I’m fine. But it is a big deal and you need someone else to validate that experience for you.” — Sarah Kagan
“Trying to put a period on something that’s an ellipsis.” — Sarah Kagan, on toxic positivity around grief
“No one helps you speed up. They just throw it at you and you do it." — Ashley Blackington
Connect with Sarah
Find Sarah on LinkedIn: Sarah Kagan
Website: keriahcoaching.com
Instagram: @griefcoachsarah

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.app
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, host Ashley Blackington sits down with Caroline Benefield—digital marketer, stepparent, and someone who found herself living a decade of life in 18 months. Caroline shares what it really means to become the third parent in a blended family, how she navigated losing both parents while building a new family dynamic, and what happens when your dream job turns out not to be your dream.
Between January 2022 and June 2023, Caroline got engaged, bought a house, moved in with her fiancé and his two kids, lost both parents, managed two estates as an only child, canceled her wedding, got married on her back porch, left corporate life, wrote a romance series, and started a digital marketing business. Through it all, she's been learning how to show up as a secure, trusted adult in her stepkids' lives—with boundaries, intention, and a lot of therapy.
In This Episode
-What it means to be "the third parent" in a blended family—not the replacement, not the villain, but an additional secure adult
-Why Caroline's approach is about enhancing existing support rather than reinventing the wheel
-How she and her husband decided which parenting responsibilities she'd take on—and which ones stay with the biological parents
-The importance of moving into a new house together rather than slotting into an existing family home
-Navigating grief while building a new family—losing her father after a decade-long decline and her mother suddenly within 18 months
-Estate planning lessons: why her mom's organized estate closed in 9 months while her dad's is still open after 4 years
-What happens when your dream job (becoming a romance author) turns out not to be your dream
-Why she started a digital marketing business specifically for moms and women—the people shortest on time with the most to give
-The fiber arts connection: how teaching the kids to crochet and needlepoint became a way to share something her own mom taught her
Key Quotes
"My job as a stepparent is not to reinvent the wheel in their lives. My job is to come in and give them extra support and resources to navigate all of the complications and emotions that come with little bodies and little brains."
— Caroline Benefield
"If you are not married to your partner and you don't intend to be, please, please set them up for success. Please set everything up."
— Caroline Benefield on estate planning
Resources & Links
Caroline's website: southerngritdigital.com
Services: Digital marketing for creatives, entrepreneurs, moms, and women (email marketing, compliance audits, digital ads, full-service packages)
Action Steps for Listeners
1. If you're dating someone with kids: Ask yourself if you can be a safe and secure adult in their lives. That's the starting point.
2. If you're in a blended family: Have clear conversations about boundaries and responsibilities before integration gets messy. Who handles discipline? What decisions require both biological parents?
3. Estate planning reminder: Set up rights of survivorship, trusts, and clear documentation. Even if you have a will, it's not enough if things have to go through probate.
4. If you're a long-term partner but not married: Make sure you're set up legally. Your partner's kids will be next of kin, not you, unless paperwork says otherwise.
5. Therapy isn't optional: Caroline, her husband, and their relationship all have their own therapy. It's how they navigate the hard stuff.
6. For moms and women entrepreneurs: If you're at the point where you know you need marketing help but don't know where to start, visit southerngritdigital.com.

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.app
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

This episode encourages embracing the messy middle, shedding old identities, taking small intentional steps, and cultivating a growth mindset as we navigate life's many transitions, personally and in parenting.
Big question - What happens when the identity that once kept you strong… starts to burn you out?
Dr. Anne Welsh shares her work supporting ambitious, working moms, and emphasizes the complexity of personal change. Ben Katt discusses his experience with spirituality, community, and social healing, focusing on midlife transformation. We touch upon letting go and the importance of small changes, especially in parenting and the evolving relationship with children, as well as the importance of celebrating small victories amidst self care.
Discover practical insights on how small shifts, self-reflection, and celebrating milestones can transform your experience of change and growth.
Key Topics:
How to navigate the fear of letting go of old identities and armor
The concept of the "hero's journey" and the call to adventure in midlife
Small, intentional shifts versus major life upheavals for meaningful change
The importance of slowing down, reflection, and micro-moments of joy
Parenting milestones as rites of passage and opportunities for celebration
Addressing grief and loss in parenting and personal transitions
Embracing a growth mindset about aging and continuous learning
Practical tips for self-trust, desire-led choices, and pacing oneself during change

Connect with Anne:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/drannewelsh/
www.instagram.com/drannewelsh/
www.drannewelsh.com

Connect with Ben:
www.benkattofficial.com
Modern Elder Academy
Book: The Way Home
Within Prison Meditation Project
Substack
Instagram

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.app
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/