AND/BOTH Podcast - Real Conversations, Shared Experiences, and the Community You've Been Missing

Becky Selbie is a London-based psychotherapist who specialises in motherhood and maternal mental health — and she has a gift for taking the frameworks she uses in her therapy room and translating them into language that actually lands in everyday life.

In this conversation, Ashley and Becky cover a lot of ground: matrescence and why the word matters so much, the rule book that high-achieving women carry into motherhood that starts working against them the moment they get there, the mums who look like they’re coping but feel like they’re failing, the difference between motherhood and mothering, and why the inner critic telling you you’re not good enough isn’t your voice — it’s the noise of a culture that has never held mothers in the regard they deserve.

It’s one of those conversations that leaves you seeing yourself differently.

In This Episode
How Becky came to specialise in maternal mental health — giving birth and thinking “how has nobody prepared me for this?”
Matrescence — why the word matters, where it came from, and why it took 50 years to reach mainstream language
The moment Becky heard it for the first time and ran downstairs to tell her husband
Sharing the concept with her mother — who had her first child in the 1960s and was prescribed tranquilizers for what was actually matrescence
Why high-achieving women struggle in motherhood more than others — and the rule book that explains why
Mums who look like they’re coping but feel like they’re failing — and what the swan metaphor gets exactly right
The “tab open” metaphor — why you never feel fully disconnected from your children even when you’re away from them
Not loving every chapter — and why that has nothing to do with how much you love your kids
The problem with parenting content on social media — theory without context, and who pays the price
Why Becky’s clinical supervisor said “well, she will” when a client was terrified of messing up her kids — and why that was the most freeing thing she’d ever heard
Motherhood vs. mothering — the doing versus the being, and why we’re graded on the wrong one
The inner critic is the patriarchy — and why turning down its volume is the whole point
What fills Becky’s bucket: creativity, building community, and the retreat she’s planning for mums

Quotes From This Episode
“Not loving motherhood doesn’t mean that you don’t love mothering. Just because you don’t enjoy bits of motherhood, there is no connection to how you feel about your kids.”
— Becky Selbie
“The inner critic is wrong. The inner critic is the patriarchy — it’s society, it’s all those messages about what motherhood should look like. And it’s nonsense.”
— Becky Selbie
“Motherhood is the doing. Mothering is the being — the relationship, the love, the knowing them inside out. But we’re graded on the doing.”
— Becky Selbie
“Even when you’re away, there’s a tab open all the time in your head. It’s just that as they get older, the tab gets smaller.”
— Becky Selbie
“Don’t compare the back end of your business to the front end of somebody else’s.”
— Ashley Blackington

Connect with Becky:
Instagram: @_motherway_
Website: motherway.co.uk

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.app
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Katie Schlott spent 20 years in innovation — running experiments, iterating, testing what works. So when she realized her professional network had quietly gone dark during the years she was deep in parenting, she did what any good strategist would do: she designed an experiment.
Day raves. Pop-up dinners in strangers’ homes. Perfume making fundraisers. Online Slack communities. Wonder Woman dinners. A volunteer board for women’s health research. She tried all of it, wrote about it for Inc Magazine, and then came back on AND/BOTH to talk through what she actually found.
The conversation covers the new rules of networking, why smaller rooms build realer connections, how parents in particular need to rethink the whole model, and what happens when you decide to build the community you can’t find. Plus Costco. A lot about Costco.

In This Episode
Why Katie ran a networking experiment — and what the traditional model was missing
The day rave, the pop-up dinner, the perfume fundraiser — what each one taught her
The Old Girls Club and Society of Working Mothers — online communities built on realness over résumés
Wonder Woman Dinners — strangers become friends in under two hours, and why it works
“Tell me something Google doesn’t know about you” — the opener that changes everything
Why funny is sticky and vulnerability gets built through shared experiences
If you can’t find what you’re looking for, build it — Brilliant Failures, Brilliant Mothers, Mama Palooza
Joining a volunteer board for women’s health research and what that unlocked
Why big conferences are often the least efficient use of a parent’s limited time and energy
Managing your network based on energy levels, not just calendar availability
What happens when you let your network go dark — and how to rebuild authentically
How to be direct about what you’re looking for instead of hoping the room delivers it
Networking with teenagers at home — and the season-by-season nature of connection

Quotes From This Episode

“If you think you’re an N of one, you’re actually an N of 100. Just start it.”
— Katie Schlott
“Funny is sticky. Vulnerability is created in moments where you’re actually having fun with people.”
— Katie Schlott
“I want to join communities that thrive on real life, not résumés.”
— Katie Schlott
“Every single founder said: just pick one thing, just start with one. Don’t be overwhelmed, just get the ball rolling.”
— Katie Schlott
“The smaller rooms are the best. Everything that follows from a small room conversation — the email, the introduction, the follow-up — none of that ever comes from a big conference.”
— Ashley Blackington

Resources & Links
Connect with Katie on LinkedIn
Read Katie's lnc. Magazine article on "The New Rules of Networking"
Check out her consultancy and read ALL her articles (Fast Company, Inc and Business Insider)
Buy the magical Costco totes that she uses to keep her cart contents tight!

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.app
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Kristin Smith has spent 20 years helping new families survive the hardest weeks of their lives. As the founder of Well Supported Family — a team of over 200 postpartum doulas, newborn care specialists, and nurses operating across 12 states — she’s built the modern village that most families desperately need and almost nobody has access to.
Now she has a two-month-old of her own. An adopted son she got the call about while she was standing at an elephant orphanage in Kenya. He came home through the NICU. And for the first time, she’s on the parent side of everything she’s built — learning what it feels like to need the very support she’s spent two decades providing.
In this conversation, Ashley and Kristin talk about the postpartum care gap, the different paths to parenthood, what actually happens in those first nights home, and what it looks like to practice exactly what you preach.
In This Episode
How Kristin started — a postpartum doula at 19 after having her daughter with almost no support
Growing Well Supported Family from a private practice to a team of 200+ across 12 states
Why postpartum care in the US is so inadequate — and what it would take to fix it
What in-home newborn care actually looks like and how it’s tailored to each family
The RV team, the travel team, and how they reach families in almost every state
NICU babies coming home — the adjustment nobody prepares families for
The call from Kenya — a failed adoption, four days into a trip, at an elephant orphanage
Three rounds of IVF and what that experience gave her as a provider
Being on the parent side for the first time — and convincing herself her own baby was broken
Why adopted babies don’t get the postpartum support they need — and the rude awakening that followed
The philosophy at the heart of her work: build children into your life, not your life around them
What’s next — expanding into mental health support and more states

Quotes From This Episode

“You can have a wound inside your body the size of a basketball, and it was attached. Just because nobody sees it doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt.”
— Kristin Smith
“I don’t believe parents should build their life around children. I believe they should build children into their lives.”
— Kristin Smith
“I was at the elephant orphanage when this baby was born. That feels so symbolic.”
— Kristin Smith
“I was convinced he was broken. I’m a professional. What is he doing? And then someone said, he was four weeks early. You’re expecting a lot right now.”
— Kristin Smith
“It’s not just giving them the break they need — it’s helping them learn to build a life with their child.”
— Kristin Smith

Resources & Links
Well Supported Family: wellsupportedfamily.com
Baby Care Classes: available via wellsupportedfamily.com
Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube: @wellsupportedfamily
Find Kristin on Facebook: Kristin Lee

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.care
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Sam Kelly was making a Saturday morning to-do list for her kids on a Friday night when it hit her. She’d just spent a year teaching her husband not to rely on her to notice what needed to be done — and here she was, about to hand her children the same broken script. She dropped the marker, went to bed, and the next morning introduced her family to Notice and Do.
Two years later she has a book deal with Harper Collins, a viral online platform, and a method that’s helping burned-out mothers around the world finally get their families off the sidelines. In this conversation, Ashley and Sam talk about the mental load, the burnout loop, intergenerational cycle-breaking, and what it actually looks like to teach kids — including neurodivergent ones — to be a real part of the family team.
In This Episode
The Friday night moment that sparked the Notice and Do method
What Notice and Do actually is — and how it differs from a chore chart
The Big Three — Sam’s daily structure for kids of any age or ability
The learning ladder — why perfection isn’t the point and every rung counts
Teaching neurodivergent kids to notice — and why it works even when nothing else has
The five cycle-breaking conversations — age-appropriate language for mental load, burnout, and equity
Why rage cleaning is never really about the messy kitchen
The burnout loop — quarterly mommy meltdowns, putting your head down, and repeat
Why self care isn’t enough — and why supportive care needs to be the new conversation
What it’s like to teach an adult partner versus teaching kids — and why those are completely separate things
The full circle moment: how Notice and Do liberated Sam enough to write the book
How to approach this when your kids just don’t care — and why that’s actually fine
What she hopes the next generation looks like when this work takes hold

Quotes From This Episode
“Mental load is a whole family issue. Whole family issues require whole family solutions.”
— Sam Kelly
“Supportive care needs to be the new self care. Who is caring for the mom?”
— Sam Kelly
“It’s not about the messy kitchen. It’s about what that mess is triggering underneath — feeling taken for granted, feeling lonely, feeling unseen.”
— Sam Kelly
“This pain ends with us. This ends here and now.”
— Sam Kelly
“Notice and Do liberated me enough to create this book. And if it can liberate me at that level, it can liberate anyone.”
— Sam Kelly

Resources & Links
Notice and Do (Harper Collins, pre-order now)
Instagram: @samkelly_world
Audio course: available via Sam’s Instagram link
Request at your local library and indie bookstore

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.app
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Amanda Timonere spent a decade at the top of the clinical world — chief clinical officer of a multi-state mental health and substance use treatment center — before becoming a mom and realizing she wanted to do something different. Not because she couldn’t do the job. Because she was missing time with her kids and because she saw a gap in care for mothers that she was uniquely positioned to fill.
Now she runs Zenful Mamas, a private practice and coaching platform built around perinatal mental health and the concept of matrescence — the neurological and psychological transformation of becoming a mother. In this conversation, Ashley and Amanda talk about what that transformation actually looks like, why so many women arrive at motherhood completely unprepared for it, and what it means to break the cycle of the blueprint you didn’t know you were carrying.
In This Episode
What matrescence is — and why most mothers have never heard of it
The neurological reality of what happens to our brains when we become parents
How Amanda’s own anxiety through pregnancy and postpartum led her to this work
Walking into motherhood with a generational blueprint you don’t know exists
Why women — especially high-achieving women — resist asking for help
The difference between therapy and coaching, and how Amanda decides which one a client actually needs
Her 12-week program “Rewrite Before You Repeat” — and what it’s designed to do
Navigating the relationship between new parents and grandparents when parenting philosophies clash
Why the women who appear to have it all together either have a lot of help or aren’t telling the whole story
The AI dependency conversation — what it means for mental health support and clinical training
Solo parenting a two and four year old while running a practice — what that actually looks like
Her vision for Zenful Mamas as a hub for maternal mental health — therapy, coaching, breathwork, Reiki, and more

Quotes From This Episode
“We’re walking into motherhood with a blueprint that we don’t even know exists.”
— Amanda Timonere
“It’s not a matter of weak or strong. There is a neurological change in our mind that’s happening and it’s so far beyond our control.”
— Amanda Timonere
“Preventative care is the best care.”
— Amanda Timonere
“Having kids is like holding up a mirror to yourself. It’s like everything is exposed and we’re figuring it out.”
— Amanda Timonere
“There’s no prize at the end of the day for doing it all perfectly. There’s never going to be a medal ceremony and someone will be the valedictorian of motherhood.”
— Ashley Blackington

Resources & Links
Zenful Mamas: zenfulMamas.com
Instagram: @zenful_mamas
Zenful Mamas Inner Circle — low-commitment monthly groups for nervous system regulation
12-week coaching program: Rewrite Before You Repeat

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com
Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/
Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822
Instagram: @mydovetail.app
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/