Psychedelic Medicine Podcast with Dr. Lynn Marie Morski

• Exploring Psychedelic Benefits for Chronic Illness with Christina P. Kantzavelos, LCSW, MSW, MLIS

  In this episode, Christina P. Kantzavelos, LCSW, MSW, MLIS joins to discuss the use of psychedelics to address chronic illness. Christina is an international psychotherapist, coach, writer and artist, who specializes in treating clients with chronic illness, and complex trauma utilizing various modalities, including psychedelic assisted therapy. In this conversation, Christina overviews the complex mental and physical health impacts of chronic pain conditions and shares her expertise on psychedelic and non-psychedelic treatments for these conditions. Christina mentions that chronic pain can put one’s body in a state that encourages fight, flight, freeze, and fawn responses which can disempower the patient’s efforts to address their condition. She also explores the intersection of identity and chronic pain conditions, discussing how that while receiving a particular diagnosis can be helpful and affirming, taking this as a core part of one’s identity can also be a major roadblock to healing. In closing, Christina emphasizes that pain starts in the brain, so leveraging neuroplasticity through psychedelics and other means can be a particularly powerful way to address both physical and mental health aspects of chronic pain conditions.    In this episode you'll hear: How Christina got involved in working with patients with chronic pain The common mental health presentations in those with chronic pain The importance of addressing physical health and mental health concurrently  Why psychedelics may be helpful for addressing chronic pain conditions The immunomodulating effects of psychedelics The power of neuroplasticity for addressing chronic pain  Utilizing neural retraining and microdosing in conjunction to prepare for more successful higher dose psychedelic experiences   Quotes: “I use all kinds of modalities and I don’t just treat someone’s depression or anxiety or complex trauma—I see it as everything is interwoven and related to each other. And it’s important that we look at the entirely mosaic piece rather than just focusing on one area.” [5:20] “There is a state of empowerment versus disempowerment in identifying with our chronic illness. I’m not saying that it is not real and it's not happening to you but it definitely is not you. It’s something you are experiencing. Even if it’s chronic and lifelong, it’s still something you are experiencing—it’s not you as a whole.” [17:48] “I’ve noticed that any of my clients who have gone through neural retraining have had little to no bad [psychedelic] trips which is amazing and I feel like that’s partly because they worked so hard to resource themselves in advance.” [25:19]   Links: Christina on Instagram Christina on LinkedIn Begin with Today website When the Body Says No: The Cost of Hidden Stress by Gabor Maté PMA CME/CE accredited course: Managing Medical Risk in Patients Seeking Psilocybin Therapy Search for providers on the Psychology Today website Psychedelic Medicine Association Porangui  

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• The Dangers of "Ayahuasca Told Me…" with Jerónimo Mazarrasa

  In this episode, Jerónimo Mazarrasa joins to discuss how to interpret visions and insights disclosed during ayahuasca journeys more effectively. Jerónimo is Program Director at ICEERS, founder of ICEERS Academy, and creator of AyaSafety, an online course for people interested in increasing the safety of ayahuasca ceremonies. To start, Jerónimo emphasizes that answering the question of whether ayahuasca visions originate in the plant medicine itself or if these are just disclosures of one’s own subconscious is actually not what's most important. Instead, he suggests that in either case, what is crucial is spending time carefully considering how one should respond to these disclosures. Jerónimo shares insights from expert facilitators on how one can best go about interpreting and responding to such experiences, suggesting that an important aspect of this process is that participants feel comfortable taking personal responsibility for whatever decisions they eventually decide to make rather than thinking of these major life changes as necessary consequences of the psychedelic experience itself. In closing, Jerónimo discusses the tension between externalization and psychologization of psychedelic experiences and why both of these can lead to issues.    In this episode, you'll hear: The common experience of feeling as though the ayahuasca has communicated something to you Examples of where taking an ayahuasca vision literally can lead to problematic outcomes  The “three confirmations” one should look for before making a major decision based on a psychedelic experience The metaphor of ayahuasca as a microscope How skilled ayahuasca facilitators ensure proper psychological hygiene with participants Judging the validity of potential repressed memories that seem to surface during psychedelic experiences   Quotes: “The way that ayahuasca becomes useful for people, I think, is that it shows you—it amplifies and shows you—what is already inside of yourself. Now, this is very useful for certain things but one has to understand the nature of the language.”  [9:23] “Facilitators should instruct their participants that one rule is that you shouldn’t make any decisions during an ayahuasca ceremony—unless they are decisions related to taking yourself out of danger.” [14:42] “Ayahuasca is not a shortcut for personal development—it’s just a flashlight that can help you shed some light on some darker parts of [your] issues and problems, but it is not a shortcut.” [35:47] “The main contraindication of psychedelics is not wanting to take psychedelics. You should absolutely never ever ever ever ever take psychedelics if you don’t want to because it is going to be horrible. It’s like a kiss—when you want it, its beautiful, intimate, gorgeous; when you don’t want it, it's the most intrusive, disgusting, blech thing ever.” [50:27]   Links: Jerónimo on Instagram Jerónimo on Facebook ICEERS Academy website ICEERS Academy on Instagram AyaSafety course  Previous episode: Guruism and Cult Dynamics in Psychedelic Practices with Joseph Holcomb Adams Previous episode: Can Psychedelics Lead to False Beliefs? with Hugh McGovern, PhD Psychedelic Medicine Association Porangui

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• Can Psychedelics Lead to False Beliefs? with Hugh McGovern, PhD

  In this episode, Hugh McGovern, PhD joins to discuss his research on the impact of psychedelics on beliefs. Dr. McGovern is a Research Fellow at the School of Medicine, Deakin University, Melbourne, Australia. To start, Dr. McGovern introduces the inference or predictive processing framework utilized in his paper “An Integrated theory of false insights and beliefs under psychedelics”. He explains the role of prediction in cognition, showing how insights occur when our existing perspectives are unable to make sense of our experience. In this vein, Dr. McGovern discusses how the psychedelic experience disrupts our normal modes of prediction and perception, leaving room for greater influence of environmental factors on insight production. In closing, Dr. McGovern shares ideas on further clinical directions for this research that could give guidance for helping patients more effectively integrate insight experiences.   In this episode you'll hear: The research into how psychedelics can influence and change beliefs The role beliefs and insights can play in psychedelic journeys  How false insights can be experimentally induced The connection between prediction errors in our cognition and insight experiences The hippocampus, memory, and psychedelics The association between insight moments and increased mental health following psychedelic experiences   Quotes: “[In psychedelic experiences] your expectations are no longer helping you make sense of your current sensory experience. And so you’re uniquely susceptible to environmental input under psychedelics—which would account for things like visual hallucinations [and] these novel insight moments.” [18:30] “When you have really really strong prediction errors or really really strong insight moments, they can have a disproportionately important influence on your worldview going forward.” [20:03] “Psychedelics, from a few different studies, show they can impair the formation of hippocampally dependent memories but they can perhaps even enhance the formation of cortically dependent memories. So what that means is you come out of the experience with this sense of knowing but it's in some sense lacking in details.” [29:04]   Links: “An Integrated theory of false insights and beliefs under psychedelics” by Hugh McGovern et al. Dr. McGovern on Bluesky Previous episode: Guruism & Cult Dynamics in Psychedelic Practices with Joseph Holcomb Adams Psychedelic Medicine Association Porangui  

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• Psychedelics for Grief and Loss with Heather A. Lee, LCSW

  In this episode, Heather A. Lee, LCSW joins to discuss the topic of psychedelic healing for grief and loss. Heather is a licensed psychotherapist, educator, speaker, and consultant. With over 30 years of practice in mental health, her focus is on supporting midlife and beyond women as they navigate life transitions. In this conversation, Heather explores the ways psychedelic healing may have transformative contributions to peoples’ journeys navigating grief and loss. She explains that we live in a culture that doesn’t have a good understanding of grief, how to navigate it, or how to support others who are grieving, so it can be a difficult issue to address. Heather discusses the neuroplasticity-promoting effects of psychedelics and elucidates the ways this can be helpful for processing grief, especially by allowing the person grieving the opportunity to hold their grief in new, productive ways alongside other healthy emotions. In closing, Heather emphasizes how psychedelics can also provide healing for existential distress brought on by the many planetary crises humanity is now facing through providing a broader, life-affirming viewpoint on these issues.   In this episode you'll hear: Heather’s journey from working in hospice settings to working with psychedelic therapy Navigating the grief of losing others and the grief of realizing the imminent end of one’s own life Why Heather thinks psychedelics are particularly useful for grief and loss How grief can manifest both mentally and physically Client stories from Heather’s practice where patients are able to process grief to achieve a better quality of life Neuroplasticity, psychological flexibility, and processing grief Psychedelics for end-of-life grief and anxiety Physiological impacts of spending quality time in nature   Quotes: “Psychedelics are a really important and powerful option that are coming into the conversation about how people can take some control of how they navigate that psycho-spiritual-emotional component of coming to end of life.” [3:19] “There is no right or wrong way to grieve and there is no normal and abnormal. I think it’s just about having markers so that we can know when and how to provide support to people.” [9:27] “On the [psychedelic] medicine, you experience that grief, that loss—whatever that is—you’re experiencing it while you’re in that [neuroplastic] state so that you have the opportunity to get a fresh perspective. And it’s in that fresh perspective that you create the new patterns of thought around [your grief].” [20:12]   Links: Heather's website Medicine Woman Retreats website  Heather on Instagram  Heather on LinkedIn Psychedelic Medicine Association Porangui  

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• Ketamine-Assisted Psychotherapy for Anxiety with Thomas Kim, MD

  In this episode, Thomas Kim, MD joins to discuss ketamine-assisted psychotherapy for anxiety. Dr. Kim is the Chief Medical Officer of Noma Therapy, which is a ketamine-assisted psychotherapy program available via telehealth and in-person with licensed therapists. He has devoted 20 years of his professional life to realizing a value-based approach to healthcare through telehealth. In this conversation, Dr. Kim shares his journey of working in early telehealth contexts to now working with ketamine. He discusses the research on ketamine treatments for anxiety and explains the significant comorbidity of anxiety, depression, and PTSD, stressing that anxiety is best understood from a more holistic perspective that considers the social determinants of health. Dr. Kim also emphasizes the importance of psychotherapy alongside ketamine dosing sessions, explaining that therapists have a window of opportunity in the days following the ketamine dose to best take advantage of the state of ketamine-induced neuroplasticity the patient is experiencing. In closing, Dr. Kim shares his philosophy of prescribing the least amount of medicine which produces the largest impact for the patient to ensure that side effects are mitigated and financial burdens are reduced.    In this episode you'll hear: Balancing maximal safety and maximal accessibility in medicine The research on ketamine treatments for anxiety How psychotherapy fits with ketamine treatments The neuroscience of why patients can have strong emotional reactions following ketamine sessions Stories of success from Dr. Kim’s practice The importance of understanding how adverse childhood experiences and social determinants of health significantly contribute to mental health struggles Collaborative ketamine-assisted psychotherapy with a patient’s existing therapist   Quotes: “Over time, continued effort in the field [of telehealth] has led to cost-effective, scalable solutions that can reach more people. I’m really hopeful that we can find solutions in the psychedelic and ketamine landscape to do a similar thing.” [5:36] “A thing that I say routinely to patients is ‘there is no cure in the bottom of the pill bottle—ketamine included.’ They are all incredibly useful and, when used effectively, can provide you meaningful relief from your psychological distress but make no mistake, there is not a cure—which is why I’m such a huge advocate of therapy and which is why ketamine-assisted psychotherapy also needs to be distinguished from ketamine therapy.”  [14:21] “[We created] an intentionally time-limited plan which places the emphasis on the fact that, one day, you’re going to drive your own bus and you’re not going to need me. It’s a terrible business model—in fact it’s a wonderful business model because it gives us an opportunity to take care of more people because we set the intention of ‘Ketamine is not forever. You’re not broken. You’re struggling and we’re going to get you to a place where you might not need us.’”  [34:04]   Links: Dr. Kim on LinkedIn Noma Therapy website Psychedelic Medicine Association Porangui  

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