Becoming Ultra

Steve Durbin has spent more than 20 years creating races, welcoming runners, solving problems behind the scenes, and building events that people return to year after year.
He started Land Between the Lakes in 2004, when there was only one other active ultra in Kentucky. What began with 90 runners grew into an event Steve describes as a "family reunion" - a philosophy that has carried through his years as a race director. 
Scott and Steve talk about what runners rarely see behind the scenes, why volunteers are an RD's most important resource, and why reading the pre-race instructions really does matter.
They also dig into Steve's long friendship with Laz, his six attempts at the Barkley Marathons, the creation of the Barkley Fall Classic, and what makes that course so brutally difficult.
Then there's Tunnel Hill. Steve intentionally designed it as the opposite of the "hardest race" trend. A fast, accessible course where runners could see what they were capable of over 50 or 100 miles. The result became a destination for first-timers and record chasers alike, with multiple world records set on the course. 
Through all the races and records, Steve keeps coming back to the people - the runners, volunteers, friendships, and memories that have made the sport such a big part of his life.
Chapters
00:00 – Meet Steve Durbin
01:35 – Starting Land Between the Lakes4
05:45 – Building races people come back to
08:45 – Steve's own running story
15:35 – Twenty years of race directing
22:35 – What runners don't see behind the scenes
26:45 – Barkley Fall Classic and working with Laz
41:20 – Steve's own Barkley experiences
44:40 – Why Tunnel Hill was built to be fast
48:20 – The people and adventures ultrarunning brought into Steve's life

Neal Palles knows the mental side of endurance sport from a few different angles. He's an ultrarunning coach, licensed clinical social worker, Certified Mental Performance Consultant, longtime runner, and former Outward Bound instructor. neal-palles
In this conversation, Scott and Neal dig into what mental performance actually looks like for ultrarunners especially when the race stops going according to plan.
They talk about learning through failure, why outcome goals can sometimes get in the way of execution, staying present when you're deep into an ultra, and how to recognize when your thoughts are starting to push you around.
Neal also gets into imposter phenomenon, comparison on social media, and the idea that you don't necessarily need to eliminate negative thoughts. Instead, you can learn to notice them, create some space from them, and get back to the next thing you can control. neal-palles
And yes, they also settle an important ultra question: Coke or Tailwind at mile 80.
Chapters
00:00 – Meet Neal Palles
02:00 – From Outward Bound to ultrarunning
10:00 – Learning through failure
13:00 – What mental performance actually means
20:30 – When fitness and race execution don't match
25:20 – Be present, open up and do what matters
30:45 – Imposter phenomenon in ultrarunning
32:45 – What to do when your brain tells you to quit
34:40 – Social media and comparison
37:00 – Quick hitters and favorite races
Connect with Neal
Instagram: @the.trail.mindset and @nealpalles
Website: thetrailmindset.com
Coaching: trainright.com/coaches/neal-palles
Upcoming project
Neal will be offering a Four Session Program called Mental Skills for Ultra in the fall or early winter.

Tim Gorichanaz didn't grow up athletic. His path into running started with a family 5K, moved quickly into marathons, and eventually led to ultrarunning and a nearly decade-long pursuit of Western States.
In this conversation, Scott and Tim talk about that journey - from Tim's first 50K in a Wisconsin blizzard to finally earning his spot at Western States, only to spend months injured during the build-up.
Tim shares what it was like to fight cutoffs all day, finish Western States in the Golden Hour, and experience the emotional intensity of finally reaching a goal he'd been chasing for years.
They also dig into something that doesn't get talked about nearly enough, post-race blues. Tim explains why finishing a huge goal can feel like losing an entire world you built your life around and why simply signing up for another race may not be the answer.
Along the way they talk nutrition, minimalist running, longevity in the sport, Tim's recent 130-mile Ring of Fire finish in Wales, and his upcoming ultra-running novel.
Chapters
00:00 – Meet Tim Gorichanaz
04:40 – From couch potato to ultrarunner
09:20 – Nutrition, recovery and minimalist running
22:40 – The long road to Western States
28:15 – Finishing in the Golden Hour
31:55 – Post-race blues and what comes next
39:10 – Ring of Fire: 130 miles around Anglesey
45:30 – Writing The Pennsylvania Death Race
Connect with Tim
Instagram: @timgorichanaz
Website: timgorichanaz.com

Blake Nations used to joke that he'd only run if it was raining and he needed to get to his car. A couple of years later, he's finished his first ultra and is training for the Never Summer 100K.
In this conversation, Scott and Blake explore the crossover between ultrarunning, backcountry hunting, and learning how to stay in the fight when things get uncomfortable.
Blake shares how moving to Colorado and getting humbled in the mountains changed the way he thought about fitness, why running became a tool for becoming a better hunter, and how gradually pushing his distance helped him redefine what "far" meant.
They also talk about Blake's first 50K, the fueling mistake that turned his final miles into a GI survival exercise, preparing for the jump to 100K, balancing big endurance goals with hunting season, and why some of the most valuable lessons happen long before the finish line.
At the heart of the conversation is a simple idea - sometimes the real win is learning not to negotiate with the voice telling you to quit.
Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Blake Nations and His Journey
02:01 Blake's Unconventional Childhood and Military Experience
04:58 Transitioning to Colorado and the Love for Hunting
07:23 The Intersection of Endurance Running and Hunting
10:15 Mental Toughness in Ultra Running and Hunting
13:07 Blake's Ultra Running Journey and Challenges
16:46 Preparing for the Never Summer Ultra
20:28 Balancing Training and Recovery for Hunting and Racing
21:49 Understanding the Journey of Running
27:49 Lessons from Ultra Running and Fueling Strategies
36:09 The Importance of Community in Endurance Sports
 
Connect with Blake
Instagram: Blake Nations
Nations Prime Ranch: Nations Prime Ranch

Hardrock 100 puts just 146 runners into one of the most remote and demanding mountain races in ultrarunning. Supporting them requires approximately 650 volunteers, specialized safety sweepers, hike-in aid stations, four-wheel-drive transportation and nearly a full year of planning.
Bill Schum, Hardrock's volunteer coordinator and an aid-station captain, takes Scott behind the scenes of the legendary 100-mile race through Colorado's San Juan Mountains.
Bill explains how volunteers support runners across a 48-hour event with roughly 33,000 feet of climbing. Some carry supplies into remote aid stations. Others spend two nights in the mountains, clear the course, manage traffic, provide medical support, or follow the final runners across passes above 13,000 feet.
He also shares some unforgettable moments from the course: volunteers searching for a missing pacer, a runner receiving the shoelace directly from a volunteer's shoe, a surprise bear at an aid station, and the wildfire smoke that kept Bill awake for 64 consecutive hours.
Along the way, Bill reveals what the back of the pack experiences at Hardrock, how technology has changed remote aid-station operations, and why every runner should expect the race to be harder and much slower than imagined.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Bill Schum and the Hard Rock 100
01:05 Bill's background and how he got involved in ultramarathons
02:13 Overview of the Hard Rock 100 race
03:43 Starting race planning and volunteer recruitment
05:14 Details of aid station setup and logistics
07:59 Managing remote aid stations and safety sweepers
14:07 Memorable wildlife encounters during the race
19:17 The most rewarding parts of the race experience
21:49 Impact of technology on race management
24:26 Race week sleep schedule and challenges
27:10 Advice for future Hard Rock runners
28:46 Closing thoughts and encouragement to spectate or volunteer
Learn more about Hardrock 100
Official Hardrock 100 website:
https://hardrock100.com/
Hardrock volunteer information:
https://hardrock100.com/hardrock-volunteers.php
Course description and safety information:
https://hardrock100.com/hardrock-course.php