Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

Australia has become a laboratory for the energy transition, what can the rest of the world learn? After two weeks travelling across Australia and meeting the leaders shaping its energy transition, Michael Liebreich got a close up view of the country’s transformation.

For the final episode of Cleaning Up’s Deep Dive Australia series, the host becomes the guest as Anna Freeman of the Energy Efficiency Council turns the tables and puts Michael in the hot seat to ask him what he has learned.

Michael divides his takeaways into the good, the less good and the “downright ugly”, from Australia’s extraordinary rooftop solar and battery uptake to its struggles with wind, transmission and diesel. He also asks whether the country really can become a clean energy superpower, and what its successes and failures can teach the rest of the world.

Topics covered in this episode:

Australia’s rooftop solar advantage

Why batteries are beating gas

The missing middle of electrification

Can transmission keep up?

Australia’s expensive wind problem

The China challenge

Breaking the diesel addiction

Why EVs may be finally taking off

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Australia Deep Dive Episodes:

Darren Miller: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBhkBTZ9lSI&t=2s

Chris Bowen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYtapcSdZOo&t=132s

Marc England https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tKVSJcS_SI&t=2s

Lily D'Ambrosio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVGL9vVTdeY

Ross Garnaut: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmcm2M5eRxk&t=35s

David Pocock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgbq5r3XTJY

Paul Simshauser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZKxb2TnD04

Martin Green: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgqXnnvlMFg

Links:

Anna Freeman’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annafreeman1/

The Energy Efficiency Council: https://eec.org.au

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Stats on Seaborne Trade of diesel: https://ieefa.org/resources/oil-shocks-expose-limits-monetary-policy

John Pettigrew on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Lg1A958aA&t=5s

Tim Meyerjürgens on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQgUuJ-dx78&t=16s

Leo Birnbaum on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa-DHuPNEDg

Andrew Forrest on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYQmEipY5Wc

Acronyms:

IRENA: International Renewable Energy Agency

EMA: Energy Market Operator

DNSP: Distribution Network Service Provider

REZ: Renewable Energy Zones

AEMO: Australian Energy Market Operator

Chapters:

00:00: Intro

05:45: Solar Adoption

10:25: Big Batteries

13:41: The Missing Middle

19:26: Transmission Grids

21:35: Australia’s Wind Problem

32:43: China’s Superpower

40:53: The Diesel Addiction

45:24: EV Adoption

52:58 Lack Of Transparency

56:19 Michael’s Highlights

01:14:00: Outro

Around the world, factories making food, drink, pharmaceuticals and other everyday products rely on steam, often produced by fossil-fuel boilers. James Macnaghten, founder and CEO of Caldera, is betting that thermal batteries can provide a cheaper and more flexible alternative that stores electricity as heat, and delivers steam on demand.

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington visits Caldera's factory to see how it makes its heat batteries: combining recycled aluminium and iron ore pellets to create a long-lasting, efficient heat store. The technology is designed for industrial processes up to 200°C, which James sees as a major opportunity for electrification.

They discuss how thermal storage can help factories manage peaks in demand, use electricity when it is cheap or abundant, and reduce pressure on congested grids. They also explore Caldera's plans to scale, its journey from domestic heating to industry, and why James believes a more pragmatic approach to electrification is needed.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The hidden opportunity in industrial heat

How Caldera's heat batteries work

Why steam still matters

Heat pumps and thermal storage

Managing industrial demand spikes

Turning surplus power into heat

Scaling a UK climate-tech company

The case for pragmatic electrification

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

James Macnaghten’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-macnaghten

Caldera: https://www.caldera.co.uk/

Professor Ning Li on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCUASv01bVY

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

JVs - Joint Ventures

IP - Intellectual Property

Chapters:

00:00: Intro

01:53: About Caldera Batteries

03:42: Heat Storage

09:47: Caldera Factory Tour

14:40: Funding Caldera

17:44: Scaling Up

25:37: Thermal Storage

29:02: Energy Price Shocks

30:27: Flexible Demand

35:22: UK Success Story

37:32: Outro

Solar was once dismissed as a marginal technology. Today, it is transforming the global energy system, and few people have done more to make that possible than Professor Martin Green. Innovations developed by Green and his research group can now be found in over 90% of all the solar panels in use today

One of the pioneers of modern solar power, Green’s research has helped make solar panels dramatically more efficient and cheaper to produce. He joins Michael Liebreich to discuss how he got into solar, the breakthroughs that helped drive its extraordinary rise, and the remarkable story of how research carried out at an Australian university helped create the global solar manufacturing industry. They also look at where solar goes next, and whether the next generation of technology can make it even more powerful. 

Topics discussed in this episode

The breakthroughs that changed solar

Understanding solar cells and efficiency

Racing NASA to new efficiency records

Pioneering PERC and TOPCon technology

How solar technology reached the market

Suntech and the rise of Chinese solar

The future of solar and batteries

Which solar technology will dominate?

Leadership Circle

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links

Martin Green bio: https://www.unsw.edu.au/staff/martin-green

Australian Centre for Advanced Photovoltaics: https://www.acap.org.au/

Professor Stephen Chu on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPmgA5cjhfk

NREL National Renewable Energy Lab chart: https://www.nlr.gov/pv/interactive-cell-efficiency

Subscribe to our newsletter: cleaninguppod.substack.com

Acronyms:

PERC - Passivated Emitter and Rear Cell

TOPCon - Tunnel Oxide Passivated Contact

NREL - National Renewable Energy Laboratory

Chapters

00:00 - Intro

02:14 - UNSW Research Group 

10:25 - Innovations in Solar 

13:12 - PERC & TOPCon Explained

19:26 - Efficiency Records & NREL Chart 

23:48 - Birth of Chinese Solar 

30:21 - The First Solar Billionaire

36:23 - Perovskite and Tandem Cells 

48:12 - Australia's Missed Chance 

50:13 - Outro

Will AI break the grid? As hyperscalers race to build ever-larger data centres, electricity demand is soaring. The question is no longer whether power demand will grow, but by how much, how quickly, and whether the grid can deliver.

This week, Michael Liebreich is joined by Arshad Mansoor, President & CEO of the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI), one of the world's leading energy research organisations. Together, they tackle one of the biggest questions facing the global energy system: how much electricity will AI really need, and can our power systems keep up?

They debate the scale of AI-driven demand growth, whether the extraordinary investment by hyperscalers is justified, and how greater flexibility could allow data centres to connect faster without overwhelming the grid. They also discuss the growing public backlash against AI infrastructure, why winning local support may become the industry's biggest challenge, and whether nuclear power is truly the "get out of jail free card" many believe it to be or simply one part of a much bigger solution.

Topics included in this episode:

The race to power AI data centres

Hyperscalers' trillion-dollar AI investment

Can electricity grids keep pace with AI's rapid growth?

Gigawatt demand forecasts

Making data centres more flexible

Public acceptance and the growing backlash against AI

Nuclear power's role in the AI era

What governments, utilities and investors should do next

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

Arshad Mansoor’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arshad-mansoor-a2090b165/

EPRI, Electric Power Research Institute: https://www.epri.com/

Jigar Shah on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOaF-qQ_TU

Varun Sivaram & Steve Smith on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kSrgRZUCwE

Rob Dunn on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3w&t=2s

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Papers referenced:

DC Flex Mosaic: https://dcflex.epri.com/flex-mosaic/open-letter

Win Win Watts: https://winwin.epri.com/en/introduction.html

Make Electricity Cheap Again: https://mliebreich.substack.com/p/make-electricity-cheap-again

Acronyms:

GPU: Graphics Processing Unit

IPO: Initial Public Offering

NESO: National Energy Systems Operator

HVO: Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil

SMR: Small Modular Reactor

Chapters:

00:00 Intro

02:29 About EPRI

06:08 AI Power Demand

10:45 Gigawatt Debate

17:19 Hyperscaler Risk

26:15 Compute In Households

31:24 24/7 Data Power

38:28 Public Acceptance

41:39 Fear Of AI

49:39 A Nuclear Solution?

58:38 24/7 Reliable Power

01:08:00 Final Thoughts

Australia has one of the world's fastest-moving electricity systems. It leads the world in rooftop solar, has deployed grid-scale batteries at extraordinary speed, and is now starting to replace its ageing coal fleet with cleaner sources of energy. But as renewable costs rise and electricity demand grows, can the transition remain affordable while maintaining a reliable power system?

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Paul Simshauser, CEO of Iberdrola Australia, and one of Australia's leading energy economists. Drawing on decades of experience across electricity markets, networks and policy, Paul explains what makes Australia's power system unique, and what the rest of the world can learn from it.

They discuss why rooftop solar has become so successful in Australia, how batteries are transforming electricity markets, and how the country's energy-only market encourages investment. They also explore the economics of replacing ageing coal plants, the costs of new renewable generation, the role of electricity pricing and demand tariffs, and what will be needed to build a resilient, affordable power system as Australia moves towards net zero.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The rooftop solar revolution

How batteries are reshaping the grid

Why solar is cheaper in Australia than elsewhere

The challenges of retiring coal

Whether renewables can stay affordable

Building a resilient power system

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

Paul Simshauser’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-simshauser-00106713/

Iberdrola Australia: https://www.iberdrola.com.au

Link to Paul’s articles: https://experts.griffith.edu.au/18942-paul-simshauser/publications

Malcolm Turnbull on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9CUGRHCswU&t=5s

Marc England on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tKVSJcS_SI

Darren Miller on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBhkBTZ9lSI&t=2s

Tony Abbott on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_39HmAgq9RY&t=1s

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Acronyms:

STC: Small-scale Technology Certificates

CFD: Contract For Difference

PPAs: Power Purchase Agreements

IBGYBG: “I'll be gone, you'll be gone.”

OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer

AEMO: Australian Electricity Market Operator

LNG: Liquefied Natural Gas

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro

02:28 - Paul's Background

04:07 - Iberdrola Australia

06:42 - Australia's Power System

09:15 - Battery Revolution

12:36 - Energy-Only Market

14:35 - Why Solar Succeeds

18:21 - Commercial Solar Challenge

24:30 - Ageing Coal Fleet

28:49 - Carbon Markets & Pricing

35:00 - Renewable Costs

39:18 - Future Demand

42:45 - Grid Resilience

48:00 - Outro