Copywriters Podcast

We’re really at a crisis point for a lot of marketers.

It’s not just that ads keep getting more expensive.

It’s that it just gets harder and harder to get and keep prospects’ attention.

And with everything being engineered and optimized by AI and CRO, stuff ends up looking more and more the same. And that only works against you.

You know you need to stand out–but how?

Well, the best way to get and keep attention is, and always has been, a story.

But how long is a story?

I mean, a Hero’s Journey story can take hours.

And even the type of compact tales I introduced in my book The Persuasion Story Code can take two to three minutes. That’s not very long, but at a time of shrinking attention spans, it’s still too long.

Now, you can try using outrageous hooks. But in addition to shrinking attention spans, you’re also fighting against rising levels of skepticism and outright distrust.

If you say something that gets attention but just isn’t believable, you’re still sunk.

So, what would be ideal to solve this problem?

It would be a persuasion story you could tell in 15 or 20 words.

Impossible, you say?

That’s what I thought until I really started working on it.

One of my clients, Ari Nirsissian, helped me quite a lot in the development of my thinking and writing of these new kind of attention magnets, the one-sentence microstory.

It really is a story. It really is persuasive.

And it really is short!

Just the right size for today’s attention spans.

Today I’m going to show you, step by step, how I developed three of them… and how I combined them into one electric three-sentence paragraph, which takes less than a minute to read out loud.

Resources:

To find out more about my book The Persuasion Story Code, check out this link to the Amazon page:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ

And to find out more about my coaching for experienced copywriters and business owners, go to:

https://garfinkelcoaching.com
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Today’s show is for every talented copywriter stuck in the feast-or-famine cycle of business and would much rather get paid well, to reflect the enormous value their copy is bringing to their clients.

We have a very special returning champion on the show today, Dr. Harlan Kilstein. He has just released a book called Value-Based Copywriting. Originally presented in a $997 seminar, this material has changed the lives and of course careers of some very fortunate copywriters.

This book solves the problem faced by thousands of copywriters–not getting paid for what their work is worth.

Harlan is a renowned entrepreneur and copywriting expert known for his innovative approaches in marketing, mindset, and personal development.

With decades of experience at the intersection of psychology, persuasion, and business strategy, Harlan has built a reputation for helping individuals and companies unlock explosive growth through compelling communication and breakthrough thinking.

He’s also a former educator with a doctorate in education. And, Harlan’s a very successful copywriter himself and an expert in NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) and hypnosis.

He’ll bring all of this, and more, to bear today. So you may want to take notes while you’re listening to today’s podcast. Lots of money-making information you will be able to use immediately.

Harlan’s new book:

Value-Based Copywriting: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GCCR64DC

My book The Persuasion Story Code: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ
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Life must have been at least a little frustrating for our Old Master on today’s show. His name was Walter Weir. He was a very active and successful copywriter and advertising professor, but he must have constantly run into resistance along the way, since so many of his ideas were ahead of their time.

Walter Weir was born in 1909 and he died in 1996. He published a couple of books which are nearly impossible to find today. Maybe the publisher, my old employer McGraw-Hill, took them out of print quickly because the ideas were so far ahead of their time that they didn’t sell very well.

I don’t know. What I do know is I was fascinated by his ideas.

Here are 5 takeaways from an exploration of Weir’s writings and thinking, from today’s show:
1. Write copy that you truly believe, because people can feel it when you don’t.

When you don’t believe it, your reader won’t either. And if your reader doesn’t believe it, they won’t buy.

2. Use words that people can FEEL as well as merely understand.

Forget about clever word-plays. Say stuff they can feel in their bones.

3. If you’ve got a group going over the copy, write the copy yourself. By yourself. Just you.

While a committee can review, only one voice can lead.

4. Forget about features and benefits. Instead, present a description of something someone would feel good about using.

People don’t tend to buy just to HAVE something. They buy to FEEL something.

5. Cut everything that doesn’t sound like something a real person would actually say.

Because unless it sounds like a human, it won’t reach one.
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If you’re involved in copywriting in any way, you know right now we’re at an inflection point.

Things have been changing fast over the last two years, and show no signs of slowing down.

People who hire copywriters tell me it’s harder than ever to find a good one… yet people who write copy for a living, many of them, tell me it’s really hard to find good-paying work.

There’s clearly a disconnect. AI has a lot to do with it.

The very definition of what a copywriter is, and what a copywriter does, seems very much in flux.

Today I want to suggest five copywriting goals for 2026. These are based on how I was able to help my own mentoring clients solve problems and develop their marketability over the past 12 months.

I work with established copywriters and business owners who use direct response, and what I helped them with on a very personal, customized basis would be a good idea for most everyone who listens to this podcast.

Links:

Copywriting Mentoring: https://garfinkelcoaching.com

Persuasive storytelling: The Persuasion Story Code
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ
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It takes a lot of courage and a lot of confidence to do what our special guest today has done… and that’s fire all his clients and start an email-based business.

But Alin Dragu did just that, and he’s here to tell us about it.

He’s the best-selling author of the book Meaningful Marketing, he spent 5 years as direct of marketing at one of the fastest growing churches in the US, and 3 years as the VP of growth at a Christian marketing agency.

Alin is definitely a copywriter’s copywriter. He’s obsessed with reading novels and old fiction letters. And he admits he’s secretly obsessed with luxury watches, something Nathan’s a collector of as well.

Finally, in case you end up taking Alin to dinner, which probably wouldn’t be a bad idea, you should know he says he’s never refused a steak, ever in his life.

Now, here’s what we asked him:

1. So Alin, could you give us a quick tour of what you do?

2. I’m very interested in your S-L-O framework that you use to write all your emails. Could you walk us through that?

3. So as I understand it, your funnel works something like this:

- you make youtube videos that promote your lead magnets

- when people get the lead magnets, of course they opt-into your list

- every day you send one, and I quote, “very entertaining story” while also plugging one of your products

- and you get sales every day.

I was wondering if we could go through one of those stories and you could break it down for us–like, say, the “I spent $613 on coffee” story? And talk about what makes a great story?

4. You are in a very email-list-dependent business. How do you deal with the issues that come with that, like trolls, unsubscribes, and delivering content every day?

5. You need to come up with a new idea every day. How do you do that without running up against burnout?

6. OK, you do something a lot of people are afraid to do. It’s something Nathan and I strongly recommend, though. Tell us how you sell in every email and get people to keep opening the next email?

7. So tell us about who your list is for and how someone can join.

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Link to get on Alin’s list:

https://alindragu.com/
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