Uncensored CMO

Dr Margaret Heffernan is one of the world's leading thinkers on uncertainty, leadership and creativity. A bestselling author, entrepreneur and former CEO, her latest book, Embracing Uncertainty, challenges one of the biggest assumptions in business that the future can, and should, be predicted.
In this episode, Margaret explains why forecasting often fails, where great ideas really come from, and why spending more time with uncertainty can actually make us better leaders and marketers. We discuss the dangers of relying too heavily on data, the surprising habits of highly creative people, and why walking might be one of the best things you can do for your thinking.
Timestamps
00:00 - Trailer
01:09 - Why pick uncertainty as a topic
05:31 - Why some companies shouldn’t forecast
09:04 - Why smart people are wasting time on forecasting
14:41 - The problem with having too much data
19:07 - Predictability only happens at scale
24:41 - Where do ideas come from?
27:19 - Why the Chief Economist of the Bank of England goes on walks
30:29 - Are we becoming too left brain dominant?
32:32 - The problem with AI
36:10 - Is AI killing our ability to think?
41:17 - How to make good ideas happen
44:11 - The power of surprise
46:15 - The improvisers paradox
49:31 - The correlation between the artists mind and the entrepreneur’s mind
51:57 - What human skills do we need to survive?
58:43 - The best advice Margaret has ever been given

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot
Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook
Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Ali Payne, CMO of Heineken, joins us to discuss how one of the world's most iconic beer brands became Creative Brand of the Year at Cannes Lions - and what it takes to keep a 150-year-old brand feeling fresh.
From being the "Official Beer of Soccer" as a non-sponsor of the FIFA World Cup to reviving the legendary "Most Interesting Man in the World" campaign, Ali shares how Heineken balances long-term brand building with cultural relevance. We explore what it takes to get an entire organisation behind bold creative ideas, the role of sport in Heineken's marketing strategy, and how brands like Birra Moretti continue to grow through innovation.

Timestamps
00:00 - Trailer
00:56 - World Cup fever for the USA and Heineken
02:51 - Jumping on cultural moments
04:25 - Becoming the official beer of soccer (unofficially)
06:50 - How non sponsors got more coverage than sponsors for the World Cup
10:18 - How to manage a 150 year old brand
12:31 - Winning Cannes creative brand of the year
14:46 - Getting the wider business on board with creative work
17:06 - Ali’s favourite Cannes Lions winner
18:38 - Bringing back Dos Equis most interesting man
22:58 - The success of Birra Moretti
24:49 - Heineken’s sports sponsorship strategy
28:32 - How are Heineken bringing new people into the category
29:56 - The ingredients for a successful innovation
33:12 - Heineken’s partnership with Heinz
37:08 - How great CMOs keep creativity alive
40:11 - What makes a great CMO?
41:58 - What’s the best advice you’ve ever recieved?

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot
Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook
Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Najoh Tita-Reid, former Chief Growth Officer at Mars Petcare, joins us to discuss why she made the unusual decision to step away from one of the biggest roles in marketing to embark on a self-described "learning safari", immersing herself in the world of AI and exploring what it means for the future of business.
In this conversation, Najoh shares why she believes too many organisations are using AI purely to drive efficiency, when its greatest opportunity lies in unlocking growth. We explore how AI is changing creativity, leadership and the role of the CMO, why marketers risk becoming tacticians instead of strategic business leaders, and what today's CEOs really expect from marketing.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:57 - Why Najoh left Mars
02:18 - Why F1 is the perfect metaphor for AI in 2026
05:18 - Using AI for growth vs efficiency
08:01 - The impact AI is having on creativity
09:17 - Why AI is the colonisation of inefficiency
16:21 - Are we at risk of becoming tacticians and not strategy leaders?
18:52 - Does the CEO understand your role?
22:40 - Can AI actually delivery higher efficiency?
25:00 - What’s the secret to delivering growth
28:24 - What having a different job title gives you permission to do
33:11 - They key leadership skills for a great CMO
34:02 - Why great CMOs are accountable for making change
36:06 - Lessons from Najoh’s biggest failure
40:01 - The difference between culture in the UK and USA
44:09 - What Najoh has learnt on her learning safari
49:47 - The best advice Najoh has ever been given

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot
Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook
Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Brent Smart is one of the most respected marketers in the world. After spending more than 20 years in advertising, he made the rare move from agency life to become CMO of NRMA Insurance. Brent's most recent role as CMO of Telstra, Australia's largest telecommunications company, he helped transform the brand through bold, distinctive and highly effective marketing.
In this episode, Brent shares the principles behind his approach to creativity, from selling big ideas inside large organisations and drawing on academic marketing frameworks to building a culture where great work can thrive. We discuss the campaigns that defined his career, including Telstra's viral "Better on a Better Network" campaign, why humour and surprise remain powerful competitive advantages, and the unique agency model that helped Telstra consistently produce standout work.
Timestamps
00:00 - Start
01:03 - Why Brent left Telstra
02:31 - Why Brent moved in house after 20 years agency side
05:41 - How to sell a creative idea into a big organisation
11:01 - The academic frameworks to create great marketing
12:16 - Why you should look at your brands heritage
14:02 - The most successful campaign Brent did for NRMA
17:33 - How Brent won a Grand Effie
21:13 - How Brent transformed Telstra’s brand marketing
26:08 - The Telstra Walk - the viral campaign
32:39 - Using humour to cut through
35:00 - The power of surprise and consistency
37:41 - The unique agency model that helped Telstra create cuthrough work
40:02 - Why craft is so important in 2026
42:44 - How to build a creative culture
47:11 - How to be a great CMO

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot
Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook
Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Bec Darley, CMO of Vodafone Australia, joins us to discuss what it really takes to grow a challenger brand in one of the world's toughest telecoms markets.
From competing against an entrenched duopoly to building distinctive campaigns with Ali Wong, Bec shares how Vodafone has embraced its challenger mindset rather than trying to imitate the market leaders. We explore why marketers need to understand far more than advertising, from unit economics and legal to customer experience and organisational change, and why the best marketing leaders are, ultimately, business leaders.
Timestamps
00:00 - Start
00:54 - Who is Bec Darley?
03:31 - Taking on roles beyond marketing to make you a better marketer
05:38 - Why the history of duopolies in Australia makes being a challenger tough
08:53 - How does Vodafone take on the giants as a challenger
12:55 - Leaning into your disadvantage
16:01 - Vodafone’s commercials with Ali Wong
18:37 - The importance of legal for marketing
21:08 - When taking risks backfires - getting banned
24:19 - Focusing on mental availability
26:40 - Are we losing the ability to be creative while hunting efficiency
29:28 - Understanding the unit economics of the business
34:28 - How to manage a portfolio of brands
36:18 - Why you need to be customer first
38:51 - The best marketers move beyond marketing
40:24 - How to make change in a company
43:46 - Embracing discomfort and failing fast
46:23 - Bec’s advice to all young marketers

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Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot
Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook
Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo