Hard Calls with Trisha Price

"And I tell all my clients, you all are in transformation. If you are not transforming, you are dying." Gabrielle BufremIn this episode of Hard Calls, Gabrielle Bufrem and host Trisha Price explore what transformation truly means, why trust is the currency that unlocks everything else, and how focus, fewer products, and AI work together to build products customers will love.Gabi didn't set out to become a product leadership coach. After building products across nine industries and three continents, she realized her real passion was helping leaders to make the shift from feature factories to outcome-driven products. But here's what makes her approach different: she knows transformation isn't a project you complete. It's the permanent momentum of building products that matter to your customers.Here's what you'll discover:Why every company is in constant transformation. Gabi reframes transformation as permanent evolution, not a one-time initiative.How to earn trust when you're starting from a deficit. Product teams often inherit "trust debt" from past failures. Gabi shares her framework on how to deliver business outcomes that the organization actually cares about, even if they don't yet understand product speak.The difference between empowered teams and abandoned teams. Gabi reveals why truly empowered teams need more coaching, not less, and what that coaching actually looks like.Why you don’t need an AI strategy. Gabi challenges the hype and breaks down when AI works as a solution lever versus when it's just noise masking a lack of strategy.The energy audit that changes everything. Gabi's energy list exercise surfaces where people waste time on work that doesn't move the needle, and often doesn't need to be done by them at all.Episode Chapters(01:28) Introduction and Gabi's Path to Product Leadership(02:52) The Unconventional Journey from Google Intern to Coach(07:35) The Hard Call of Leaving Product to Become a Coach(11:32) How to Know If a Company Is Ready for Transformation(15:33) The Uncomfortable Truths Leaders Must Confront(17:15) Starting with All-Star Teams and Building from Success(21:22) The Trust Problem: Earning Credibility from Deficit(23:06) Why Empowered Teams Need More Coaching, Not Less(27:06) AI as a Lever, Not a Strategy(32:21) How AI Is Accelerating Discovery and Prototyping(34:09) Why Engineers Are More Valuable Than Ever(36:14) The Energy Audit: What Brings You Joy vs. What Drains You(38:58) The Calendar Test: Do You Really Need to Be There(42:35) Making the Hard Call: Choosing What to Focus OnLove the episode?Drop us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share it with a teammate navigating transformation or trying to build better product instincts. Every subscription helps more product leaders find Hard Calls.Presented by Pendo. Discover more insights at pendo.io or connect with Trisha Price on LinkedIn.

"In AI, speed matters—but trust compounds."Naomi Lariviere, Chief Product Owner and VP of Product Management at ADP, leads product strategy for a company that processes payroll for millions of people. When even the smallest error can mean someone doesn't get paid on time, there's no room for "move fast and break things."In this episode of Hard Calls, Naomi and host Trisha Price dig into the decision that defined ADP's AI strategy: choosing to slow down full automation on ADP Assist to protect client confidence. It's a masterclass in what responsible innovation actually looks like when the stakes are real."We could have shipped faster. But in payroll, trust isn't something you rebuild easily." - Naomi LariviereHere's what you'll discover:Why ADP paused automation to preserve accuracy. Naomi walks through the hard call to prioritize explainability and reliability over speed-to-market. In high-stakes environments like payroll, trust compounds—and so does the cost of getting it wrong.The 3-question rubric to prioritize what to ship. Naomi shares the simple framework her team uses to evaluate every feature: Does it solve a real problem? Can we explain how it works? Does it protect user trust?How to embed ethics from day one. ADP doesn't treat privacy, compliance, and bias as checkboxes at the end. Naomi reveals how "shift-left ethics" means involving legal and privacy teams at the earliest stages of product development.Why diverse teams build safer AI. Homogeneous teams miss blind spots. Naomi explains how diversity across backgrounds, perspectives, and experiences leads to more resilient products—especially in regulated industries.Building psychological safety in high-pressure environments. Innovation requires teams that feel safe to challenge assumptions, raise concerns, and kill their darlings. Naomi shares how she creates that culture while still delivering outcomes.Whether you're building AI in a regulated industry, leading teams through complex trade-offs, or trying to balance innovation with responsibility, this episode shows you how to make the hard calls that protect what matters most.Episode Chapters00:00 Introduction and Naomi’s Path to Product Leadership 04:32 The Hard Call: Trust Before Speed in AI 07:16 Balancing Innovation and Reliability 09:41 A Simple Product Rubric for What to Ship 11:51 Killing Your Darlings with Outcome-Based OKRs 15:15 Shift-Left Ethics: Privacy and Compliance from Day One 20:10 The Payroll Anomalies Breakthrough 28:02 Upskilling Teams for AI Innovation 36:51 Building Psychological Safety 38:54 Why Diverse Teams Ship Better, Safer AI 42:27 Closing TakeawaysLove the episode?Drop us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share it with a teammate exploring AI in regulated industries. Every subscription helps more product leaders find Hard Calls.Presented by Pendo. Discover more insights at pendo.io or connect with Trisha Price on LinkedIn.

Noa Ginsberg, SVP, Product Management Excellence at FactSet, faced a challenge that would make most product leaders nervous: transform how a 40-year-old financial data company builds products. Not a single team or feature, but the entire product organization.In this episode of Hard Calls, Noa and host Trisha Price dig into what it truly takes to introduce modern product thinking to build a Product Management Center of Excellence. They discuss the best practices for rolling out new tooling and analytics-driven processes across thousands of employees without losing touch with the customer and what made FactSet successful in the first place."If we hadn’t positioned for product excellence, we wouldn’t be ready for the AI wave.” - Noa GinsbergHere's what you'll discover:How to build a Product Center of Excellence that scales. Noa breaks down the framework she used to reduce duplication, create clarity, and align product teams around shared outcomes—without adding bureaucracy.Why gut instinct still matters in a data-driven world. Experience teaches you to recognize patterns faster than dashboards can. Noa explains how to trust your intuition while building the discipline to validate it with data.The metrics that actually drive outcomes. Noa describes that aligning product metrics to business outcomes is not as easy as it sounds. Using the FACT Model, Noa shares how her team moved beyond vanity metrics to metrics that connect product decisions to business results.How AI is changing the product development lifecycle. From ideation to prototyping, AI is compressing timelines and allowing anyone to bring an idea to life. Noa reveals where her team is seeing the biggest impact and where human judgment still wins.Episode Chapters(00:00) Introduction and Noa Ginsberg's Role at FactSet(03:00) The Hard Call of Transforming a 40-Year-Old Company(06:39) Gut Feel as Data: Trust Your Instinct But Verify(12:07) When to Build a Product Center of Excellence(16:34) Stakeholders, Supportability, and Voice of Customer(20:57) How to Get Started Building Your Own COE(25:07) Aligning Product Metrics to Business Outcomes(29:00) Keeping Teams Customer-Connected in the Messy Middle(32:09) How AI and Agents Are Accelerating Product Development(39:13) Closing Thoughts on Decision-Making and Product ExcellenceLove the episode?Drop us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share it with a teammate navigating their own hard call. Every subscription helps more product leaders find Hard Calls.Presented by Pendo. Explore more insights at pendo.io or connect with Trisha Price on LinkedIn.

What’s it really like to make a hard call inside a global bank? Peter Bailey, Product Director at J.P. Morgan Payments, joins Trisha to unpack the decision that nearly “got me fired” - calling off a launch when the data vendor wasn’t the right fit, but then won the trust of his peers and leaders by making the right call.In this episode of Hard Calls, he and host Trisha Price reconnect as past colleagues and dive into the benefits of focusing on the developer experience. Peter explains why building for developers at J.P. Morgan is as strategic as building for customers. And speaking of customers, the two talk about the knowledge they’ve gained when they bring customers along with “near-vana,” (listen to the episode to learn more). They also discuss the mindset needed to lead through today’s disruptions from AI and blockchain, all the while maintaining data security and compliance.Episode Chapters(00:00) Introduction and hard calls in global banking(01:50) The “almost got me fired” decision to either launch or hold the line(08:15) Services to Product: Lessons from Primatics(16:30) Owner mindset inside a global bank(21:30) Navigating AI disruption with curiosity(27:15) Customer and developer feedback loops(28:00) “Near-vana” - Advisory panels, betas, shared accountability(35:10) When Peter flips the script and interviews Trisha(39:00) Closing ReflectionsLove the episode?Drop us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, and share this episode with a teammate navigating their own leap to leadership. Every download and subscription helps more product leaders find the show! Presented by Pendo. Dive deeper at pendo.io or connect with Trisha Price on LinkedIn

“At the end of the day, your job is to build enterprise value as a CPO.” - Jodi McDermottIn this episode of Hard Calls, three-time CPO turned product and board advisor, Jodi McDermott at Switchback Advisory, talks with host Trisha Price. Together, they explore how to navigate the tough decisions product leaders face and what it takes to be a successful product leader today. Here's what you'll discover:The hard calls that protect team culture. The tough talent decisions every leader eventually faces: removing a high-performer who's quietly poisoning the team culture, and reassigning a beloved team member who is simply in the wrong role for them and for what the team needs. When to walk away from a product. Not all revenue is good revenue, and a product leader needs to know when to say no in order to focus resources on what can actually scale.Why financial acumen is a product leader's biggest flex. Product leaders must act as P&L owners, not just product visionaries. Learn the ideal investment distribution for most products: 30% maintain, 30% sustain, and 40% growth. The strategic power of Product Operations. A good product ops team can be an extension of a CPO, setting the operating standards for the team, collecting and analyzing data, so the team can be free to explore and spend more time with users.How to build connected teams. Embrace servant leadership and vulnerability to foster genuine connections with team members spanning the globe.Episode Chapters(00:00) Introduction(01:05) The Hard Call: The Culture Hire or the High Performer?(04:30) The Right Person in the Wrong Role(07:45) Proving the ROI of R&D to PE-backers(11:00) Balancing Investments with Maintain, Sustain, Grow Distribution(15:00) Product Ops and How it Extends the CPO’s Strategic Influence(18:30) Building Vulnerability-Based Trust Across Teams(25:40) The #1 Skill Gap for Aspiring CPOs (and It’s More Than Curiosity)(30:45) AI Disruption: Internal Tools, Product Strategy & Changing Perceptions(36:45) The One-Way vs Two-Way Door Metaphor to Decision MakingLove the episode?Drop us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, and share this episode with a teammate navigating their own leap to leadership. Every download and subscription helps more product leaders find the show! Presented by Pendo. Dive deeper at pendo.io or connect with Trisha Price on LinkedIn