IndoctriNation

Carol Merchasin returns, and this time, Rachel and Carol go deep on what it actually looks like when survivors of coercive control, spiritual abuse, and high-control groups consider taking legal action.
Carol shares how her career shifted from corporate employment investigations to building a litigation practice focused on religious misconduct and cultic settings, and what landmark cases reveal about how the law interprets coercion, consent, and systems of control.
What happens when a survivor wants justice, but the legal system wasn't built for them? Carol walks through the real barriers: statutes of limitations, evidence demands, credibility challenges, and the emotional toll of depositions and mediation, especially for those carrying religious trauma or the psychological weight of cult recovery.
She also explains how the right litigation team can become part of the healing process, why journals and social media posts matter more than most people realize, and what truly trauma-informed support looks like when therapy and legal advocacy work together.
Plus: Carol shares her role as ICSA board president and highlights the upcoming ICSA conference in San Diego on July 1 — a vital gathering for researchers, clinicians, and advocates working at the intersection of faith deconstruction, coercive control, and survivor justice.

Carol’s Links
ICSA Conference: https://internationalculticstudies.org/

Connect with us on social media: 
⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠
Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 
https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠
Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:
https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION
Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:
⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠
Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 
https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm
Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4
Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:
https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign
Journal App: 
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html
Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html
IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:
⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein, LMFT, MSEd, sits down with Jared Stacy, PhD, who is a theologian and ethicist. He is the author of "Reality in Ruins: How Conspiracy Theory Became an Evangelical Crisis." They sit down for a deeply personal and clinically resonant conversation about radicalization, religious trauma, coercive belonging, and the courage it takes to say "I don't know."
Jared grew up inside fundamentalist evangelical Christianity, attended Liberty University, and was a pastor before a years-long crisis of faith led him to Scotland — and eventually back home. His book draws on that journey to examine how conspiratorial thinking takes root in high-control religious communities, and why belonging and certainty can be prioritized — fueling everything from QAnon to Christian nationalism to the weaponization of forgiveness in abusive church settings. If you've ever watched someone you love disappear into a belief system you don't recognize, this conversation is for you. 

Jared Stacy’s Links
Website: https://jaredstacy.com/about/
Book: https://www.amazon.com/Reality-Ruins-Conspiracy-American-Evangelical/dp/0063453754

Connect with us on social media: 
⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠
Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 
https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠
Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:
https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION
Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:
⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠
Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 
https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm
Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4
Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:
https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign
Journal App: 
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html
Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html
IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:
⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination 
In this Patreon bonus episode, host Rachel Bernstein, LMFT, examines how victim blaming functions across abusive relationships, sexual violence, cults, and high-control religious environments — and why it remains one of the most pervasive obstacles to survivor recovery.
Rachel discusses why those who cause harm often present as calm and credible while survivors, navigating the effects of trauma, are met with skepticism. She explores the role of guilt in maintaining emotional captivity, and how coercive control can be obscured through isolation, financial manipulation, reality distortion, dependency, and the gradual erosion of identity. The conversation offers language, context, and validation for survivors working to understand their experiences, as well as insight for those supporting them.

Connect with us on social media: 
⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠
Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 
https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠
Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:
https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION
Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:
⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠
Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 
https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm
Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4
Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:
https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign
Journal App: 
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html
Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html
IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:
⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In this episode, Daniella Mestyanek Young returns to IndoctriNation to discuss how cults exploit group dynamics. Born three generations into the Children of God, then a U.S. Army intelligence officer, Daniella has spent her career studying coercive control from the inside out. In her new book The Culting of America, she lays out a 10-part model of cult tactics — the same playbook used in religious cults, high-control workplaces, the military, single-family cults, and even fandoms.
Rachel Bernstein and Daniella Mestyanek Young unpack why social proof makes us doubt our own eyes, why every cult seems to promise some version of "space travel," and what really separates brainwashing children from brainwashing adults. They also get into the warning signs every parent, employee, and former believer should know — and the small, daily reframes that loosen a coercive grip.

Daniella’s Links
Book: https://knittingcultlady.com/products/the-culting-of-america?variant=45519679160451
Website: https://knittingcultlady.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/daniellamyoung_/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@knittingcultladycaptain

Connect with us on social media: 
⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠
Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 
https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠
Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:
https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION
Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:
⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠
Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 
https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm
Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4
Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:
https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign
Journal App: 
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html
Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html
IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:
⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein sits down with Lindsey Sanders to talk about her memoir, The Sacred Song of a Heretic, and what it means to reclaim "sacredness" outside of a high-control religion.
Lindsey was raised in a multigenerational Mormon family, where she was taught to value obedience, certainty, traditional gender roles, a limited range of acceptable emotions, and avoidance of outside sources of information. As a teenager, a relationship with another girl set off a chain of guilt, parental discipline, and repentance that pushed her to "double down" on her faith.
Then, in 2019–2020, her brothers' decision to leave the church prompted Lindsey to research Mormon history for herself. Within six months, she walked away. 
Rachel and Lindsey dive into the long process of deprogramming — therapy, finding the online ex-Mormon community, a C-PTSD diagnosis framed through the lens of religious and spiritual abuse, and Lindsey's perspective on Mormon Church policies toward LGBTQ and trans members.
This is a conversation about indoctrination, identity, leaving a high-control religion, and what healing can look like when you start trusting your own voice again.

Lindsey’s Links
Book: https://a.co/d/00nrrG6s
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehealingexmo/
Substack: https://thehealingexmo.substack.com/

Connect with us on social media: 
⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠
Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 
https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠
Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:
https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION
Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:
⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠
Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 
https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm
Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4
Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:
https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign
Journal App: 
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html
Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html
IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:
⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands