The Leadership Podcast

Steve Cadigan is a global talent strategist, author of "Workquake: Embracing the Aftershocks of COVID-19 to Create a Better Model of Working," and LinkedIn's founding Chief HR Officer. Steve believes the world of work is going through a "workquake" — a fundamental shift that's breaking the old employer-employee contract. At the core of it is a false premise: the idea of long-term loyalty that neither side can reliably keep. In this conversation, Steve explains why many of the world's most successful companies have surprisingly short employee tenure, why the workforce isn't disloyal but loyal to growth, and why leaders should focus less on retention and more on creating meaningful development while people are with them. For leaders navigating turnover and rapid change, this episode offers a more honest way to think about talent and what it actually takes to build teams that perform. Find episode 506 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Steve Cadigan on Retention Is Dead: The Workquake Reshaping Talent https://bit.ly/TLP-506 Key Takeaways [03:40] Steve defines a workquake as any shift so fundamental it renders the existing architecture of work obsolete. [04:46] Steve argues that most employer-employee relationships begin on a false premise — and that dishonesty is where the breakdown starts. [06:42] Steve reframes retention: instead of demanding loyalty, commit to making the employee's time with you the most growth-oriented chapter of their career. [09:12] Steve uses Chick-fil-A as a model for honest talent strategy — celebrating alumni, not just retaining them. [17:42] Steve explains how LinkedIn turned its recruiting struggle into a competitive advantage by aligning the employee experience with the product promise. [26:26] Steve warns that over-indexing on experience and ignoring transferable talent is one of the most costly mistakes leaders make today. [30:36] Steve makes the case that learning must be designed into work itself — not treated as a perk or a line item that gets cut first. [33:53] Steve challenges leaders to ask honestly which companies today are actually building for 100 years — and why so few are. [38:14] Steve argues that AI is being misused as a cost-cutting tool when its real power is making people more capable, not replacing them. [41:13] Steve leaves leaders with one directive: stop waiting for a benchmark that doesn't exist — and be willing to become one. [42:58] And remember..."Nonetheless, the only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." - Vince Lombardi. Quotable Quotes "If you want people here because they want to be here, you're running a company. If you don't, you're running a prison." "The workforce is incredibly loyal — just not to you. They're loyal to growth." "If your talent strategy is not changing as fast as the outside world, your employee relationship is near its end." "If the outside world is changing faster than the inside, the end is near." "You can't have a job today that takes someone five years to figure out." "We have so over-indexed on experience and so overlooked talent." "There is no benchmarking for this moment — you're going to have to be the benchmark." "People want to be on teams that are going somewhere." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Steve Cadigan X | @SteveCadigan Steve Cadigan Facebook | www.facebook.com/thestevecadigan Steve Cadigan LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/cadigan Steve Cadigan Instagram | @stevecad

Will Linssen is the CEO of Global Coach Group, and the author of "Triple Win Leadership Coaching: The Coach's Guide to More Impact, More Coaching, and More Clients." In this conversation, Will challenges the traditional model of leadership coaching. Too often, coaching focuses on the leader while leaving the team out of the equation—one reason why team satisfaction frequently remains low even when leaders feel they've made progress. Will explains how great coaches assess coachability before the work even begins, why ego is often the biggest barrier to meaningful change, and what leaders in global, multicultural environments consistently misunderstand about communication and feedback. We also explore the impact of AI on leadership. Will argues that decades of accumulated expertise are losing their advantage. The leaders who will thrive going forward aren't the ones with all the answers—they're the ones who know how to ask the right questions. If you've ever wondered why leadership development often fails to stick inside organizations, this conversation offers a candid look at what's missing—and what needs to change. Find episode 505 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Will Linssen on Why Leadership Coaching So Often Fails https://bit.ly/TLP-505 Key Takeaways [03:26] Will reveals why traditional coaching fails: coworkers are left out, so their satisfaction with the leader's growth drops to as low as 18%. [05:23] Will reframes leadership development from "project me" to "project we" — and why that single shift drives real momentum. [10:30] Will explains how quarterly co-worker feedback keeps both the leader and the team mutually accountable for results. [12:01] Will names the two biggest predictors that a leader won't change: ego and job insecurity. [17:03] Will shares what 100,000+ leaders across six continents have in common — and where culture changes the game. [21:37] Will makes the case for leading with questions in high-hierarchy cultures as the fastest way to unlock smart, silent people. [26:20] Will reveals the belief about leadership he changed his mind about most after 30 years: outside-in behavioral change beats inside-out every time. [28:13] Will walks through the Triple Win business case that connects leader behavior to team behavior to measurable numbers. [35:50] Will warns that AI is depreciating your leadership experience premium fast — and what that means for your role. [39:16] Will's single action item for every leader in 2026: ask your team what advice they have for you, pick one thing, and go. [40:29] And remember..."A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson Quotable Quotes "Leadership is not about the leader. It's about the people the leader is leading." "You need to change the leader's system, not just the leader." "The more you make leadership about "we" and the less you make it about "me" — realizing that "we" includes "me" — the more it makes total sense." "Leadership is co-creating change with coworkers." "Ego is total poison for coaching." "If adults don't want to change, they will not change." "We're not perfect people every day, but we can commit to being better every day." "We don't focus on those who need our help the most. We focus on those who want our help the most." "Don't ask closed questions. Ask the how question — that's where execution breaks down." "The moment you start making leadership about yourself, you're already making the first misstep." "Leaders only change when the new outcome is important enough to them." "As human beings, we have more in common than our passports divide us." "Smart people with AI can out-leader you very quickly. Be ready for that." "The leader is like a symphony orchestra conductor — the one who makes everything work together without playing an instrument." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Will Linssen | www.facebook.com/coachlinssen Will Linsse LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/wlinssen Global Coach Group Website | globalcoachgroup.com

Mark Crowley's newest book is The Power of Employee Well-Being: Move Beyond Engagement to Build Flourishing Teams. For more than a decade, organizations have chased employee engagement - through surveys, gamification, perks, and wellness apps - yet the results haven't improved. Gallup now reports engagement at a ten-year low. Mark was one of the early voices questioning the engagement movement, and in this conversation he explains why the model itself is flawed. We talk about what leaders have been measuring incorrectly, what employee well-being actually means, and why the strongest predictor of team performance isn't compensation, perks, or pressure to produce. It's belonging. If you're seeing burnout, quiet disengagement, or people simply going through the motions, this conversation offers a different lens on leadership—and practical insights you can start applying immediately. Find episode 504 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Mark Crowley on Why Your Team Is Still Disengaged https://bit.ly/TLP-504 Key Takeaways [03:04] Mark explains why employee engagement flatlined. [08:09] Mark draws the line: personal well-being is on you, but how your people perform at work is almost entirely on the leader. [12:08] Mark defines employee well-being, and why wellness apps and free yoga are just band-aids. [15:26] Mark reveals the number one driver of well-being: belonging. [18:36] Mark on hybrid work: packed Zoom calendars are theater. Judge people on outcomes, not optics. [24:22] Mark pushes back on the work ethic debate, and calls out companies playing both sides of the hybrid fence. [32:59] Mark shares the story of his top performer who turned down bigger offers — for one reason her boss never expected. [38:16] Mark's fix for micromanagement: weekly individual check-ins that solve problems before they spiral. [41:30] Mark's closing insight: 95% of human behavior is driven by emotion. Stop asking what people think — ask how they feel. [43:13] And remember..."Well-being is attained little by little, and nevertheless is no little thing itself." - Citium Zeno Quotable Quotes "Once people negotiate their compensation, pay stops being a day-to-day motivator. You've got to figure out the other four drivers." "Wellness is not well-being. A free yoga class is a band-aid." "The number one driver of well-being is belonging — and most leaders never thought that was their job." "If people are feeling supported, trusted, growing, and appreciated — they will naturally reciprocate and produce at levels most leaders have never seen." "We've been misaligned to human nature. That's why engagement never worked." "Nobody can thrive without connection. The highest performing teams are the ones where everybody has each other's back." "The tighter people are, the more people feel like they can be who they are — that's the greatest driver of well-being." "Ask people how they feel — not what they think. That's where the real answer is." "Up to 95% of human behavior is driven by feelings and emotions. That's not soft, that's science." "People pour their heart into surveys and nothing ever gets done." "HR should be the advocates for people — not the C-suite's executioner." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Mark Crowley Website | markccrowley.com Mark Crowley Podcast | markccrowley.com/podcasts Mark Crowley X | @MarkCCrowley Lead From The Heart Facebook Page | facebook.com/LeadFromTheHeart Mark Crowley LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/markccrowley

Muriel M. Wilkins is the founder and CEO of Paravis Partners, host of the HBR podcast, Coaching Real Leaders, and author of "Leadership Unblocked: Break Through the Beliefs That Limit Your Potential." Muriel makes the case that lasting leadership change doesn't come from better tactics. It comes from changing the hidden assumptions driving those tactics in the first place. Drawing on research with over 300 coaching clients, Muriel introduces seven hidden blockers—simple, pervasive beliefs that quietly sabotage even the most capable leaders. She explains why high performers are especially vulnerable, why action bias becomes a liability at the top, and what "doing the inner work" actually looks like when you're in the thick of real pressure and expectations. This is one of the most practically grounded conversations we've had on self-awareness, sustainable change, and what it really takes to lead at the next level. Watch this Episode on YouTube | Muriel M. Wilkins on 7 Hidden Beliefs That Sabotage Leaders (And How to Break Them) https://bit.ly/TLP-503 Key Takeaways [03:07] Muriel explains why "is it them or is it me?" is the wrong question—and what to ask instead. [04:57] The assumptions layer of the VABES framework: why changing behavior without changing the belief beneath it never sticks. [07:09] The seven hidden blockers outlined: I need to be involved. I need it done now. I know I'm right. I can't make a mistake. If I can do it, so can you. I can't say no. I don't belong here. [09:09] Why "I need to be involved" is the #1 blocker for leaders trying to scale up—and how it keeps them stuck in the weeds at exactly the wrong moment. [11:26] How action-orientation—a strength that builds careers—becomes a liability when it skips the half of the equation that makes change sustainable. [13:43] Muriel argues that Western culture rewards controlling the external — questioning the internal was never part of the deal. [18:45] What to do when a hidden blocker gets surfaced: why these beliefs aren't the enemy, and the three-step approach to working with them rather than against them. [22:56] Muriel challenges the idea of fixed personality, it's mostly learned beliefs, and adults can choose to examine them. [27:17] Muriel reveals that in 22 years of coaching, not one client has ever called asking to work on their beliefs — the readiness has to come first. [29:15] What "doing the inner work" actually looks like inside a real coaching conversation—under pressure, with no time to think. [33:14] Muriel's origin story: the client results that wouldn't stick, the personal walls she kept hitting, and the Michael Singer quote that reframed everything. [37:11] Muriel admits she found herself in all seven blockers while writing the book, not just the one or two she expected. [41:24] The pro tip: two words. Be curious. Not about others—about what you're thinking, and whether it's aligned with where you want to go. [43:12] And remember..."It's not the events of our lives that shape us, but our beliefs as to what those events mean." — Tony Robbin Quotable Quotes "You have to go back and question the assumptions that went into the model. You didn't go in and rejigger the model itself." "We spend so much time trying to make everything on the outside okay so that we can feel okay on the inside." — Michael Singer, cited by Muriel "It's not about getting rid of them. It's about understanding and being strategic and having choice around when you use them." "It is not the events of our lives that shape us, but our beliefs as to what those events mean." "What you think your personality is not really your personality. Your personality is just a bunch of learned behaviors that came out of learned beliefs." "You have a portfolio of beliefs, and you should be able to tap into any of them at any given time." "They're not the enemy. They're just not the friend that you want to have at that given moment." "In order to get results on the outside, you've got to make sure that the inside is also aligned." "Do you want to make the change before something else forces you to do it, or do you want to just wait?" "What am I thinking about myself, about the other, about the situation — and is it helping me or is it not?" These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Muriel M. Wilkins Website | murielwilkins.com HBR podcast Coaching Real Leaders | www.murielwilkins.com/podcast-coaching-real-leaders Twitter | @murielmwilkins Facebook | www.facebook.com/coachingrealleaders LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/murielwilkins Instagram | @coachmurielwilkins

Mark Morgenfruh is the President and CEO of GetHRready and author of "Never Fire Anyone: A Leader's Guide on how to Lead People not Companies." He holds a Master of Human Resource Management from Rutgers University and built his no-nonsense, trust-first philosophy from the ground up. In this episode, Mark dismantles the two most common leadership failures he calls "keyboard cowboys" (leading from behind a screen) and "happy talk" (avoiding the real conversation until it's too late). He makes the case that trust isn't built through programs or policies — it's built by being a normal human being when you walk through the door. Mark introduces his values-based leadership and disciplinary model — an alternative to PIPs and terminations. He explains why firing someone is more often a reflection of a bad hire or promotion decision than a performance problem. He also challenges HR to stop being the policy police and start being an enabler of real relationships between leaders and their people. If you've ever avoided a hard conversation, put someone on a PIP, or wondered why your culture feels transactional — this episode is for you. Watch this Episode on YouTube | Mark Morgenfruh on Never Fire Anyone https://bit.ly/TLP-502 Key Takeaways [02:47] Mark explains why leaders undermine trust — even with good intentions — by hiding behind hierarchy instead of being human. [04:11] Mark expands into his two failure modes: keyboard cowboys who lead from behind a screen, and happy talk that avoids the real conversation. [07:22] Mark defines trust-based leadership — it's not the carrot, not the stick. It's simply being a normal person when you walk through the door. [14:07] Mark argues PIPs almost never work and terminations reflect a hiring failure. He offers a values-based model that moves people into roles where they can succeed. [16:24] Mark introduces a core framework from his book: employees should create more value than they consume. [19:26] Mark points out that most companies dismiss exit interviews instead of mining them for honest feedback. [20:58] Mark shows why strong relationships let you catch the unraveling early, and why waiting until the fifth or sixth waypoint is too late. [29:49] Mark reframes HR's real role — not a policy manual, not a union shop, but an enabling function that coaches people back into direct relationships. [35:08] Mark challenges companies to engage talent wherever they are, and tells leaders of remote teams exactly what they're doing wrong. [39:58] Mark closes with a clear message: kill happy talk, lead with candor, and act with urgency before the spiral starts. [42:25] And remember..."To be trusted is a greater compliment than being loved." — George MacDonald Quotable Quotes "Stop the happy talk. Stuff is going south — let's talk about what's going south and how we fix it." "A termination is a more severe reflection on the hiring or promotion decision than it is on the employee." "Trust comes from being normal. Just having a conversation with people." "You're never going to get in trouble for doing more than you have to do for a person. Period. End of story." "There's some veil that we put on when we walk through that door that is killing us in our work relationships." "You don't call when you just need something. You call just to see how they're doing." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Mark Morgenfruh Website | www.neverfireanyone.com Mark Morgenfruh LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/markmorgenfruh TLP039: Humanizing Our Workplaces with Liz Ryan