Real Relationships Real Revenue - Audio Edition | Invest in Relationships to Build Your Business and Your Career

I'm excited to sit down with Kristy Ellmer, a senior leader at Boston Consulting Group and co-author of How Change Really Works, to talk about what it actually takes to lead meaningful change inside organizations. Rather than relying on intuition or management trends, Kristy explains how years of research in behavioral science, neuroscience, and real-world transformations led to seven practical principles for increasing the odds of success. We explore why so many change efforts stall, why getting genuine agreement matters more than quick consensus, and how leaders can create the conditions for lasting progress instead of temporary compliance.
Our conversation also moves beyond strategy into the human side of transformation. We discuss why people are more likely to embrace change when they have ownership in shaping it, how leaders can encourage productive disagreement without slowing momentum, and why stories often inspire action more effectively than metrics alone. Whether you're leading a company, managing a team, or guiding clients through change, these ideas offer practical ways to think differently about how people commit to new directions and sustain them over time.
 
Topics We Cover in This Episode: 
Why "false alignment" creates more problems than open disagreement

How to know when your team is truly aligned before moving forward

A simple exercise that exposes hidden assumptions in leadership meetings

What the "IKEA Effect" teaches us about ownership and commitment

Why involving more people doesn't always slow a transformation down

How stories and symbols can motivate people in ways data alone cannot

The role of healthy debate in building stronger decisions and better execution

Why successful change is often about designing the process, not just setting the goal

 
If you're responsible for leading change or influencing others through uncertainty, I think you'll find this conversation incredibly helpful.
 
Resources Mentioned:
Purchase How Change Really Works: https://a.co/d/08tqzPRZ
Connect with Kristy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristy-r-ellmer-b25b7a23/
Connect with Kristy on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kristy_ellmer/
 
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In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Robert Cialdini, one of the world's foremost researchers on influence and the bestselling author of Influence, to discuss what actually builds trust in relationship-driven business development. Rather than focusing on persuasion tactics, we explore the small, practical behaviors that help experts create stronger client relationships over time—from expressing genuine affinity and finding authentic points of connection to using language that reinforces partnership instead of distance.
We also talk about why human connection often matters more than demonstrating expertise alone. Dr. Cialdini shares research-backed examples on asking for advice instead of opinions, making communication feel more personal, framing conversations around shared goals, and even how admitting a past mistake can strengthen credibility.
 
Topics We Cover in This Episode: 
Why the principles of liking and unity are foundational to lasting client relationships

A simple language shift that turns critics into collaborators

How to find authentic common ground without forcing rapport

Why humanizing your communication can be more persuasive than emphasizing credentials

What Warren Buffett's shareholder letters teach about building trust

How acknowledging a past mistake can make future recommendations more credible

When framing outcomes as potential losses can be more motivating than highlighting gains

Practical ways to make emails, conversations, and client interactions feel more personal

 
If you're looking for practical ways to strengthen trust, communicate more effectively, and build relationships that last, I think you'll find plenty to take away from this conversation.
 
Resources Mentioned:
Cialdini Free Assessment — cialdini.com  
Book: Influence by Robert Cialdini — https://a.co/d/05dd7GPv 
Robert Cialdini's other books — https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B000AP9KKG/
 
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In this episode, I sit down with former Navy SEAL, leadership expert, and bestselling author Rich Diviney to explore what it really means to perform well in uncertain environments. Drawing from the ideas in his book Masters of Uncertainty, Rich explains why chasing peak performance can actually be the wrong goal for most people and why learning to perform optimally in unpredictable situations matters far more. 
We discuss how uncertainty affects decision-making, motivation, relationships, and business development, and how small shifts in focus can help us make progress even when outcomes feel unclear.
If you're leading a business, growing relationships, managing a team, or simply trying to navigate a challenging season, this conversation offers practical ways to stay focused and effective when certainty is nowhere to be found.
Topics We Cover in This Episode: 
Why optimal performance is often more useful than peak performance

How uncertainty creates stress and what your brain is looking for in difficult situations

The Duration, Pathway, Outcome (DPO) framework and how it can reduce overwhelm

Why breaking goals into smaller horizons can improve motivation and follow-through

How fear, uncertainty, and anxiety interact and what helps reduce their impact

What attributes reveal about how people show up under pressure

How high-performing teams adapt leadership responsibilities in real time

Why trust depends on more than competence and consistency alone

 
If you're looking for practical ways to navigate uncertainty with more confidence, clarity, and resilience, this episode is for you.
 
Resources Mentioned:
Listen to Secrets to Thriving Under Pressure with Author and Retired Navy SEAL, Rich Diviney: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/secrets-to-thriving-under-pressure-with-author-and/id1504330338?i=1000683901565 
 
Connect with Rich: https://learn.theattributes.com/mastering-uncertainty
 
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Follow Mo's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mobunnell/

In this episode, I sit down with Melody Wilding to talk about a skill that has become increasingly important in today's matrixed organizations: managing up. But not in the traditional sense of simply keeping your boss informed. We explore what it really means to build influence with decision-makers, stakeholders, and leaders whose priorities, communication styles, and levels of involvement may be very different from your day-to-day contacts. Whether you're navigating internal relationships or working with complex clients, Melody shares practical frameworks for creating alignment, building trust, and increasing your impact without feeling political or inauthentic.
We also discuss how to identify the people who truly influence outcomes, make the most of limited access to senior leaders, and communicate your value in ways that resonate with decision-makers.
 
Topics We Cover in This Episode: 
Why "managing up" means much more than managing your relationship with a direct supervisor

How to identify the stakeholders who have the greatest influence over key decisions

A simple power-mapping framework for navigating complex organizations

Better questions to ask when trying to understand what decision-makers truly care about

How to communicate updates in ways that highlight business impact instead of activity

The role curiosity plays in creating meaningful networking opportunities

Why involving others in the process often creates stronger buy-in than presenting a polished solution

How to use brief interactions with senior leaders to build stronger long-term relationships

 
If you enjoy conversations about influence, business development, leadership, and relationship-building, I think you'll find a lot to consider in this discussion. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss future episodes, and if you found this conversation valuable, please share it with a colleague or friend who would enjoy it as well.
 
Resources Mentioned:
Connect with Melody: https://melodywilding.com/ 
Get Melody's free training, 5 Steps to Speak Like a Senior Leader, here: https://melodywilding.com/training 
 
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Free Give to Grow Training and Downloadable Materials: Givetogrow.info
Give to Grow Amazon Order Link:  https://a.co/d/ec8DTzc
Follow Mo's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mobunnell/

In this conversation, I sit down with Steve Kamb to explore what it really means to keep moving forward when things don't go according to plan. We talk about why success in business development, leadership, fitness, and creative work often has less to do with having the perfect strategy and more to do with developing the ability to adjust, learn, and make another attempt. Steve shares lessons from stand-up comedy, golf, entrepreneurship, and his own experiences building businesses and writing his latest book, How to Try Again, offering a practical framework for navigating setbacks without getting stuck in them.
A major theme throughout our conversation is the tension between outcome-focused thinking and process-focused action. We discuss Steve's PACT framework, the role of self-compassion after disappointment, why experimentation lowers the stakes of trying something new, and how high performers recover from setbacks more quickly by learning rather than dwelling. Whether you're pursuing new clients, launching a project, building relationships, or simply trying to make progress in an uncertain situation, this episode offers a thoughtful perspective on resilience, adaptation, and the long game of meaningful growth.
 
Topics We Cover in This Episode: 
Why comedians, entrepreneurs, and business developers all rely on repetition more than perfection

How the concept of "pre-accepting any outcome" can reduce anxiety and improve performance

The difference between persistence and continuing to push in the wrong direction

What Steve's PACT framework teaches about responding to setbacks constructively

Why treating challenges as experiments can make change feel more approachable

How curiosity can be more useful than self-criticism when evaluating past failures

What separates people who recover quickly from disappointment from those who stay stuck

Why genuine generosity and relationship-building often outperform transactional networking approaches

If you've ever found yourself wondering what to do after a missed opportunity, a failed initiative, or a result that didn't match your expectations, I think you'll find this conversation both practical and encouraging. Tune in, subscribe so you never miss an episode, and share it with someone who could benefit from a fresh perspective on learning, adapting, and trying again.
 
Resources Mentioned:
Steve's Website: stevekamb.com
Order Steve's Book: https://stevekamb.com/howtotryagain/
https://www.nerdfitness.com/



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